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viscomjim
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Joined: 08/01/2014
Location: United States
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Posted: 03:44pm 21 Jan 2014

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Is there any status update on MMEdit specifically for uMite?

Thanks!

elproducts

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Joined: 19/06/2011
Location: United States
Posts: 282

Posted: 04:34pm 21 Jan 2014

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Geoffg said It sounds as if the iMac does not generate VT100 key codes for the function keys. In that case you can use control codes when inside the editor. For example, CTRL-W is the same as F2. These are documented in the section describing the editor (page 12).

Many terminal emulators allow you to customise the function keys, in that case you could set them to the control codes.

To copy the program from the Micromite to another computer you need to enter the command XMODEM SEND at the command prompt. The F12 key will do that for you when you are at the command prompt (not inside the editor).

Geoff

Looks like I'm the one being beta tested (and I'm finding bugs).
Thanks Geoff.

www.elproducts.com

vasi

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Joined: 23/03/2007
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Posted: 04:36pm 21 Jan 2014

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Akash, thanks for the link! It may solve my problem, but we need an official solution for our community and only Microchip can solve that.

Vasi

P.S. Yep, the serial bootloader compile under 3Kb - as I expected. We really need the AN1388 adapted to compile with MPIDE compiler, with proper ld scripts (this may be a faster Microchip solution but again, we need also to compile Maximite and Micromite sources).

Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton
Elvish name: Mablung Miriel
Beyound Arduino Lang

Bryan1

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Joined: 22/02/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1345

Posted: 06:24pm 21 Jan 2014

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Well over 35K round trip to see if the caps had turned up and nope, so a day over 1 WEEK and jaycar can't get a package sent WHAT A F'ing JOKE if it can take 9 days for a package to come from Asia and yet 8 days and still no package for over priced caps ( $1.95 each) and $7 postage.

This black duck WILL never buy off those losers EVER AGAIN.

O'well waited to get the chips so the wait goes on

One peeved off Bryan

bigmik

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Joined: 20/06/2011
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Posted: 06:41pm 21 Jan 2014

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Gday Bryan,

An excuse for a few more `sherbets' in your `cave' while you wait?

I know what you mean about price, I bought mine from element14 (not arrived yet) because I was ordering a couple of PIC32MX150's and their price was were $2.16 + GST each (for the Caps NOT the Pic32)... but free post..

You can get a 10V Low ESR 47uF from Rockby.com.au for 60c ea..

I assume the 10V shouldnt be an issue (6Volt is quoted)..

See this image

Regards,

Mick

EDIT** Hard to read the JPG (due to the back shed's) compression ...

The Stock code is 39027

Mik
Edited by bigmik 2014-01-23

Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<<

Bryan1

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Joined: 22/02/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1345

Posted: 06:46pm 21 Jan 2014

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Hi Mick,
Yea hindsight is a wonderful thing and after looking in the post box I did remember the one and only time I ordered off rockbys. 3 days for delivery and it may of been 2 as I didn't check the post box the previous day. On the bright side I did find an air pump so I can age my homebrew moonshine that much quicker so I guess that is my only high point for the day.

Cheers BryanEdited by Bryan1 2014-01-23

MOBI
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Joined: 02/12/2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 819

Posted: 06:59pm 21 Jan 2014

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Question on the Pic32 Vcap value. The uMite PDF indicates 47uF but the specific Pic32 data sheet shows 10uF typical which is what I used on my breakout board version of the MM and it works ok.

Does it really matter?

David M.

TassyJim

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Joined: 07/08/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 6103

Posted: 07:06pm 21 Jan 2014

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viscomjim said Is there any status update on MMEdit specifically for uMite?

Thanks!

I only received the parts for my uMite Monday.
I have started playing and planning the changes needed to MMedit.

I used Jaycar 47uF tantalum and a LM1117T regulator with a couple of 10uF on input and output. I added a couple of 0.01 uF caps just in case...

In the photo, it's happily running a BMP085 I2C pressure module.
I have been editing in MMEdit2 (not the version I released) and transferring to the uMite OK.

I tried 2 different USB to TTL modules and one of them had the Tx and Rx lines back to front. That was the first one I tried of course.

MMEdit 2 will have the choice of 2 different serial ports and an option to look for unsupported commands/functions so you can check the code before uploading.

I think there will also be a 'click and set' panel for things like CPU speed and AUTORUN.

I think I can make a couple of changes to the original MMEdit to make it useable with the uMite and that should be fairly soon.

If you find you are missing the FORMAT$ command, this is what I cam up with:

function uFormat$(x,p)
' given a number (x) and the required number of decimal places (p)
' returns formatted string. Negative and zero p is permitted
local x1, f$
f$=str$(cint(x*10^p))
if p>0 then
uFormat$=left$(f$,len(f$)-p)+"."+right$(f$,p)
elseif p = 0 then
uFormat$=f$
else
uFormat$=f$+string$(abs(p),"0")
endif
end function

A question for Geoff.
Is there an easy way to determine the current CPU speed?
I would like to display an Information panel in MMEdit.

Jim

VK7JH
MMedit MMBasic Help

Grogster

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Joined: 31/12/2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 9310

Posted: 07:43pm 21 Jan 2014

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MOBI said Question on the Pic32 Vcap value. The uMite PDF indicates 47uF but the specific Pic32 data sheet shows 10uF typical which is what I used on my breakout board version of the MM and it works ok.

Does it really matter?

Speaking only from my own experience, I would think it is not THAT mission critical, or Microchip would have said as much. I imagine that is is a case of it having to be tantalum or ceramic type(not a cheap aluminium electro) for stability. As to the 6v rating, I don't think that is too mission critical for the same reasons, although there is a relationship between capacitance value and the voltage you are running them at. I seem to remember reading somewhere about the fact that running 63v caps on less then 10v is a BAD idea - something about the capacitance only being correct at roughly the capacitor's working voltage or something.

With the 47uF one, I will be using a 16v tantalum in my tests shortly(just because that is what I have handy today), but if push came to shove, I would elect to buy 6v caps, then as the supply voltage is 3v3, this would be within a cat's whisker of the rated voltage of the cap, and so should keep the cap happy.

Edited by Grogster 2014-01-23

Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!

TassyJim

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Joined: 07/08/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 6103

Posted: 09:08pm 21 Jan 2014

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I have uploaded an update to MMEdit which give some support for the uMite.

I had trouble with some serial ports.
Did not work with:
Silicon Labs CP210x USB to UART Bridge

Works OK with:
Prolific USB-to-Serial Comm Port

Thats on Windows 7 64 bit.

To use MM Edit with the uMite,
Create code as normal (The command highlighting does not recognise the new commands)
Open the 'Chat' window.

Set it to MicroMite using the right hand unlabeled button. The adjacent button resets it to Maximite.
The Window title will indicate Maximite or MicroMite.

Use 'Load' to upload your program.
Setting the clock etc should all work as normal.

Don't try and use the File manager.

Jim

VK7JH
MMedit MMBasic Help

JohnS
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Joined: 18/11/2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3819

Posted: 09:59pm 21 Jan 2014

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vasi said We really need the AN1388 adapted to compile with MPIDE compiler, with proper ld scripts.

I'm lost as to why? Geoff says the space is already in use. There isn't 3K free.

Also, the Mchp AN1388 doesn't fit in 3K.

The ld scripts are irrelevant I think but just edit to make them how you want them.

John

MicroBlocks

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Joined: 12/05/2012
Location: Thailand
Posts: 2209

Posted: 11:06pm 21 Jan 2014

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The link in my post about someone who made a bootloader for the chipkit32 seems to get it into a 3Kb boot flash memory. Having a bootloader is pretty convenient for updates.
You could then even do it remote or send it to someone who has one of your projects.

If the target audience for the chip is those who buy the 'virgin' chip and program it with a pickit or similar then i understand the reason for not using the boot flash memory, but then why the need for a full screen editor. Already you need a pc to program the firmware so using an editor and upload it with a terminal seem trivial for those kind of users.

If the target is to make embedded controllers accessible and easy to program for many people including the less experienced then i think how PICAXE does it is a good example. Buy a kit that has a chip on it with a bootloader, plug in a USB/serial cable and get started.

Tough decisions.

Microblocks. Build with logic.

JohnS
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Joined: 18/11/2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3819

Posted: 01:07am 22 Jan 2014

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That's the non-USB one, right?

There still isn't 3K free. What are you going to delete that Geoff hasn't?

John

robert.rozee
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Joined: 31/12/2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2350

Posted: 02:36am 22 Jan 2014

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JohnS said That's the non-USB one, right?
There still isn't 3K free. What are you going to delete that Geoff hasn't?
John

it seems fair to say that the code may shrink as optimizations are made over time. or functionality may be shifted from raw code into basic-coded extensions that are hidden from the user.

but the problem still remains of how a novice can get from buying a blank 32mx150 that costs $5 to having micromite up and running, without needing to invest in a pickit3 that costs $30 or more. the cost of the pickit3 seems disproportionate to the $5 cost of the 32mx150 and the ideal of a cheap and accessible platform.

how about this idea: if someone were to write an arduino sketch, load it onto an arduino mini or nano, then use that as a dedicated 32mx150 programmer? the mini costs less than $5 (delivered) on ebay, the nano less than $10. how difficult would it be to fit a programmer into the available 32k of flash on the on the '328? remembering that it only needs to target the one pic specific, not the whole device family.

rob :-)

elproducts

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Joined: 19/06/2011
Location: United States
Posts: 282

Posted: 02:50am 22 Jan 2014

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TZAdvantage said
If the target is to make embedded controllers accessible and easy to program for many people including the less experienced then i think how PICAXE does it is a good example. Buy a kit that has a chip on it with a bootloader, plug in a USB/serial cable and get started.

Isn't this what we have?
We're in beta/development stage right now but soon the chip could easily be available from various sources with the firmware already installed.
Then all you need is a MicroMite chip, plug in a USB/Serial adapter or cable and launch a VT100 Terminal (using MicroMite Editor) or MMEDIT to get started.

This is just like PICAXE except the chips won't cost $10+ for a $3 PIC and $20+ for a USB/serial cable.

And if you don't like the price of the preprogrammed MicroMite chips then for a $30-$40 investment you could buy a programmer and build your own chips.

Now that is something PICAXE doesn't offer!

www.elproducts.com

JohnS
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Joined: 18/11/2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3819

Posted: 04:29am 22 Jan 2014

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robert.rozee said it seems fair to say that the code may shrink as optimizations are made over time. or functionality may be shifted from raw code into basic-coded extensions that are hidden from the user.

Well, you can hope!!

robert.rozee said but the problem still remains of how a novice can get from buying a blank 32mx150 that costs $5 to having micromite up and running, without needing to invest in a pickit3 that costs $30 or more. the cost of the pickit3 seems disproportionate to the $5 cost of the 32mx150 and the ideal of a cheap and accessible platform.

I only partly agree in that $30 isn't a lot to be able to then program a lot of chips.

robert.rozee said how about this idea: if someone were to write an arduino sketch, load it onto an arduino mini or nano, then use that as a dedicated 32mx150 programmer? the mini costs less than $5 (delivered) on ebay, the nano less than $10. how difficult would it be to fit a programmer into the available 32k of flash on the on the '328? remembering that it only needs to target the one pic specific, not the whole device family.

rob :-)

I don't know if it can be done - never read up on doing it - but sounds like any chip that's cheap that can actually do it would be good. Maybe someone already made something like this?

Is this the kind of device that (with software) could do it? AVR programmer

Could a 'mite do it? Would avoid having an Arduino device which does seem a weird thing to need in this situation.

I bought a PICkit3 clone ages ago to avoid such worries or gymnastics. I got a JTAG device on a similar basis so I could program all manner of chips (mainly ARM ones in practice). Again, cheap (been used a lot more, too).

JohnEdited by JohnS 2014-01-23

vasi

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Joined: 23/03/2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 1697

Posted: 05:22am 22 Jan 2014

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JohnS said ... Also, the Mchp AN1388 doesn't fit in 3K...[/quote]
John, those 3Kb for bootloader are not out of the blue. When you decide things you make some calculations. By example, what is the minimum size that a serial bootloader can have?

JohnS said
The ld scripts are irrelevant I think but just edit to make them how you want them.
John

Don't say that, some ld scripts are not compatible with MPIDE compiler. Do you know how to fix them? Look, right now, for many of us an ld script is an alien language - something horrible compared with those for PIC18F.

I have the impression that you don't read the entire comments. I said that I heard Geoff when he said that there are not 3Kb anymore left for bootloader. Anyway, the main discussion is about having (legally) a compiler which permits anyone to compile Maximite without problems.

You know, I think Microchip believes that he is part of some kind of nobility and we are just commoners every time he gives us competitive microcontrollers with crippled tools. How we are supposed to use the 3Kb bootloader space if the compiler does not allow me to do that? What is the point then??? I buy the microcontroller, is cheap, is fast, is ... mine. But, just to show it in a stand? To use it as a pendant? Is some kind of favor from Microchip and I should be in ecstasy? And Microchip is wondering why people end up using Arduino and the family!!!

Oh! Yes, there is MPIDE but you can't compile a lot of useful stuff and we don't know if it will be ever possible . Anyway, I'm expecting some answers from Microchip, as promised (and to be clear, he is not doing me a favor, I;m doing it buying his products).

Now, cooling down...

Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton
Elvish name: Mablung Miriel
Beyound Arduino Lang

JohnS
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Joined: 18/11/2011
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 05:35am 22 Jan 2014

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I'm just requoting that Geoff said there is not 3K available so the bootloader is a bit of a problem if it won't fit as he says it won't.

There's not much trouble building one's own pic32 C compiler instead of crippled xc32 if you want that - just follow what others already posted on the net.

I'm not sure what MPIDE is adding once someone uses a non-crippled C compiler. May as well use your favourite editor and bypass MPIDE entirely. As it happens there are people doing that, such as Pinguino project but you can do it directly once you have the toolchain and use such as pic32prog.

BTW, using the existing toolchains the code from AN1388 builds and can be used, right? I don't see why to use MPIDE as it's just reducing what was already easy and works.

John

JohnS
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Posted: 05:36am 22 Jan 2014

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In case someone feels inclined there's this DIY simplified pickit2 clone

John

vasi

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Posted: 06:02am 22 Jan 2014

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I'm using MPIDE compiler from inside MPLAB-X IDE and a lot of projects compiling with C32 and XC32 are not working here. Just try it for yourself. BTW, why I have the impression that you are hunting something?

Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton
Elvish name: Mablung Miriel
Beyound Arduino Lang

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