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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Beta Testers Wanted
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9310 |
Yes indeed. We are up to 12 flippin' pages on this thread, and there is still plenty of comments coming!  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Bryan1 Guru  Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1345 |
G'day Guy's, Well according to the tracking my pic's should be here tomorrow and the caps should be in the post box so hopefully by Thursday I'll be filling up my BB and having a play with the uMites. Now with all the suggestions coming forward a suggestion is NOT to dump anything and rather just do different hex files with different features that way the integrity of Geoff's original work is kept intact and say if a user is using 2 or 3 uMites the 2nd and 3rd can have the alternate hex files in. Regards Bryan |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9310 |
I have one PIC32 chip to play with(more coming incase I cook the test one somehow), and I am just waiting on my PICkit3 to arrive, then I can hook it all up and run some tests. The idea of different HEX files is a good idea - perhaps that is the way forward? That way, as you say, Geoff can keep it the way he intended for now, and perhaps release different HEX's to do different things depending on what is wanted. Or is that dangerous, as people could put the wrong HEX in, then moan that something is working, not realising they have the wrong HEX? Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2350 |
just musing here - how practical would it be to have basic program code stored in (and run from) an external 3-pin eeprom device? other ideas tried before involve shifting part of the interpreter to byte-code like in the first apple basic roms written by woz, coding some less commonly used functions into basic themselves, and having blocks of compressed code that are decompressed as-required into ram and then executed (again, for less commonly used functions). just musings, mind you... rob :-) |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9310 |
As far as I can remember, I think the upper-market PICAXE chips(the X2's) can do this - load and run a code stored in an external EEPROM. I believe they use a special command along the lines of I2CRUN or something like that. EDIT: We're up to 13 pages!  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Frank N. Furter Guru Joined: 28/05/2012 Location: GermanyPosts: 831 |
Did someone remember the good (or bad  ) old BASICSTAMP I ?
I found some old code for realizing I2C-MASTER in software. I will try to run it on the µMite - that's an alternative to the HW-I2C bus. (...and costs no effort and memory from Geoff! )
@Geoff: I am very interested on your VT100 terminal! Your fullscreen editor is really good and important!!! Frank |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9310 |
Yes, I too may have a use for a VT100 compatible terminal - I will be looking out for this with interest. And, yes - I remember the BASIC STAMP 1 and 2 - both of which were about $80 each - things have come a long way in a short time. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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panky Guru Joined: 02/10/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1101 |
Hi Geoff, Great concept and I am looking forward to the completed product. You mentioned early on that a boot loader is not part of the project and that a PIC kit is needed to program - have you considered a loader such that after loading MM Basic it then overlays itself with MM Basic to recover the space? Mm Basic could include a compressed version of the loader which when initiated, restores the loader ready for a new version of MM Basic to be loaded? Bit convoluted I know but it would get round the need for PIC kit? If it came to a choice, I would rather have the boot loader rather than the inbuilt editor and use Jim's MMEdit. Just an idea to float. Regards, Doug. ... almost all of the Maximites, the MicromMites, the MM Extremes, the ArmMites, the PicoMite and loving it! |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
I thought the bootloader used separate memory. In the datasheet it says 128Kb+3Kb. (Page 2, table 1) 128Kb Program memory and 3Kb Boot Flash Memory. Furhter in the document "Separate boot Flash memory for protected code" A bootloader that uses the uart is described http://caroper.blogspot.com/2013/06/fun-with-bootloaders-mpl ab-and-github.html Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3818 |
Yes there's extra memory for a bootloader but at 3K it is not enough for various existing bootloaders. Some then grab a part of the main flash area. (The larger PIC32 chips have 12K rather than 3K and that's enough generally.) John |
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Geoffg Guru Joined: 06/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3199 |
Interesting discussion on the bootloader. I did originally intend a bootloader but gave it up because: - The 3K reserved for a bootloader is rather small and anyway I had stolen most of it for other purposes (for example, saved variables are saved there). - MMBasic is very stable these days and I figured that with a beta test program I could get the firmware quite close to being bug free and feature rich. All of which means that updates will not be as important as they were for the Maximite. - Programmers are very cheap these days (this one is about $30). - People would have to get the initial firmware+bootloader into the chip in the first place. And that requires a programmer, and if they already have a programmer, why would they need a bootloader? Just to be clear here, the PIC32 does not come with a bootloader. In the case of the Maximite the manufacturer of the kit or computer programmed that for you. The Micromite is different, people will be buying virgin chips from Element14, etc and they will be completely blank. Geoff Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net |
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CircuitGizmos Guru Joined: 08/09/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 1425 |
Or buying the chips loaded with MicroMite firmware from CG. Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
For anyone interested, AN1388 contains bootloaders for PIC32, including a serial one. As Geoff provide only the firmware and the programer is a requirement for the "PICAXE killer", maybe someone will go beyond BASIC interpreter and go for the bootloader (just to keep only one USB cable connected to your PC). I wonder if PICAXE guys will take this as a challenge (pseudocompilation) ... BTW, bytecode compilation will provide better speed execution at maybe half memory less. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
I know a bootloader won't be used for space reasons but let's light some things: I'm pretty sure that a serial bootloader from AN1388 will fit into 3Kb but unfortunately, not with the free version of XC32 compiler and not even with the unrestricted one, as there are some incompatibilities with the linker script and maybe other things (after all, it seems that the unrestricted compiler is pretty useless outside mpide environment). Here is the maximum I can get with xc32: 
Obvious, the selected optimization level was ignored... I was directed to buy a different xc32 license Anyway, the Microchip representative says: [quote] The Maximite project is very interesting. Let me bring this up to a few people and see what we can come up with.[/quote] Hopefully, it is about the compiler... Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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elproducts Senior Member  Joined: 19/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 282 |
Here are my first two issues with MicroMite. 1) I can use my iMac to connect to it via the Terminal program. The editor appears and the program. But none of the Function keys work. I've tried various things such as apple key - F2 and shift - F2 but it won't save and run. I've googled it and still no answers. If anybody is good with Mac let me know. I can't figure this out. 2) I can figure out how to use xmodem to save a file in TeraTerm. I selected "receive file via xmodem" and it sits there for a while but nothing happens. The manual says when in editor mode to hit F12 and I'm running this on a Windows XP netbook so the Function keys work but I don't see anything happening and the file ends up blank. Any help here would also be appreciated since I don't know how to save other than copy and paste. www.elproducts.com |
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| Geoffg Guru Joined: 06/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3199 |
It sounds as if the iMac does not generate VT100 key codes for the function keys. In that case you can use control codes when inside the editor. For example, CTRL-W is the same as F2. These are documented in the section describing the editor (page 12). Many terminal emulators allow you to customise the function keys, in that case you could set them to the control codes. To copy the program from the Micromite to another computer you need to enter the command XMODEM SEND at the command prompt. The F12 key will do that for you when you are at the command prompt (not inside the editor). Geoff Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
I don't know how relevant is this: VT Terminal Emulation on Mac OS X Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| akashh Senior Member Joined: 19/01/2014 Location: IndiaPosts: 115 |
Vasi, you can recompile your xc32 compiler from source and enable optimisation. I saw this on a site somewhere: http://jubatian.com/articles/turning-on-optimizations-in-mic rochips-xc32/ The legality of it is perhaps questionable but theoretically you are allowed to recompile a GPL application and use it, so perhaps it would be worth exploring. Akash |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9310 |
YAY! My PICkit3 has arrived. Now, to clear some space on the bench.... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1345 |
G'day Guy's, Cool the chips turned up today so hopefully the 47uf caps are in the post box which I'll check later. Now for the 3v3 power supply I got some TLV1117-3v3 chips and a sot223 breakout board which will make it easier to setup the 3v3 power supply. Also while hunting I found a heap of 24AA1024 I2C eeproms where 4 can be put in with individual addressing so it will be some fun getting those working. Fun times ahead for sure and I'm not surprised the package from Asia arrived quicker than the Jaycar package from Oz. Cheers Bryan |
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