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Forum Index : Electronics : Time for a new Warpinverter build
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| Warpspeed Guru  Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
The rectangular wire will be absolutely brutal to wind. The smallest size is I believe 3mm x 3mm and the largest I have ever seen is 4mm x 25mm. Normally it is supplied on a very large diameter drum, and wound straight onto a very large diameter transformer bobbin with a POWERFUL machine. Try buying some aluminium from Bunnings, rectangular aluminium bar of similar dimensions. Try wrapping that around a toroidal core, and see how that goes !!! You will quickly realize that solid copper bar its just not practical for a toroid in the larger sizes. Even round wire anything slightly over 2mm diameter starts to become a real challenge. The very fine stranded single insulated automotive/marine battery/starter cable is by far the easiest to work with. Welding cable is the same stuff, but it is double insulated and uses up more precious space through our rapidly shrinking hole. The welding cable is more readily available though, and is usually sold by the metre which can be more convenient. The outer orange layer can be fairly easily peeled off. Cheers, Tony. |
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renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
2kw That's from a normal 2kw. Re shed heating, I got one of these for my shed, bloody ripper, very efficient. When it's cold you most likely wont have gobs of solar. With the polyurethane I put in the cores, the way I figure is that still air is a very good insulator, that's why you have spaced windows, and insulation traps still pockets of air. Moving air has wind chill factor, BUT when each layer of wire is wrapped in the clear tape what have we done? Made still pockets of trapped air. Having the epoxy some do will certainly help, and the clear tape will conform to the wire to a great degree, but I figured having a big connected blob would transfer well, and I really do think it does. BUT I'm the only one that does it, so that might tell you something as well.  Edited 2021-03-15 09:41 by renewableMark Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Yeah, I'm pretty well sold on just buying some fine stranded automotive or welding wire to add the heavy windings. Twisting 2 meters lengths may be doable, still painful ... but 15 meters!!! ... the only reason I'd consider twisting my own is if I have miscalculated somewhere and don't have enough room for the pvc insulated wire. I did look at the range at Jaycar when I was in the city last week ... but at those prices I'll want to work out very accurate lengths before I lash out. I also got some prices from the links you sent me earlier in the thread so plenty of options. Cheers, Roger |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Thanks Mark, I thought they must be close in size ... but the smaller 3kW one is still marginally different to the 2kW one you showed. See pix on bottom of page 5 of this thread ... it has a 100mm hole and is 70mm high. Wow, can't argue about the price. How efficient are they, how long do they run on a tank ... and how much smell? My enclosed workshop is more like a normal room, vinyl floor and all ... and well insulated, but I could see one being very handy when I'm in the big shed or we're all out under the patio. Yep, can't argue with any of that. I think the actual real life experiences are where the value is ... we can theorise all day and still end up all wrong or all right ... and your method clearly is working ok. I think I backpedalled on any coating because of the difficulty in unwinding if something goes wrong. I guess time will tell. Cheers, Roger |
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| renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
those heaters are great, you can get the all in one unit like I have posted or the remote diesel tank ones. I have the remote type in my caravan. With the all in one unit, if you don't spill diesel everywhere there is zero smell. They are a heat exchanger. A fire is burnt inside a block of aluminium with fins and the fan blows over it. Intake and exhaust pipes need to be run outside. If it's fitted properly zero smell and zero carbon monoxide, just a fan running over a hot bit of metal basically. Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Thanks for the heads up on them Mark, I'd never seen one before. Had to watch a video or two to get the idea of how they work ... the ebay ad with flames coming out the front airvents is a bit misleading. Not sure I'd want one if that's how they worked.  Cheers, Roger |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Its the same principle as the Rinnai gas space heaters. They burn outside air, and vent all the combustion products back outside. The completely separate room air circulates through a heat exchanger, so they are very healthy and very clean. Cheers, Tony. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Mmmm ... except our Rinnai gas space heaters don't have any connection to outside ... so maybe these aren't a good idea. We haven't used them in the 6 years since we shifted, so maybe they should be retired. We use wood which heats beautifully, but it is a lot of work. Cheers, Roger |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
I have seven of the things, and ALL have an external flue and combustion air intake. Cheers, Tony. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Four layers of 92 turns on and three more to go. Still a very slow process, but getting quicker as I get more practice. Once again cutting it fine. 600mm left after winding two layers from my 52.5 meter length.  The mylar certainly adds to the overall volume as to get half overlap around the outside gives at least three layers thick around the inside ... so of course there's not as much room between turns for the next layer to settle partly down between the previous layer windings. Hopefully there will be enough room for the secondary. Still on track I think.I was able to speed up my mylar winding when I realised I have a large spring clamp to hold the mylar so I can use two hands to wind out the next section. It's a workout to use one handed, but saves a heap of time and frustration.  Cheers, Roger |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
There is absolutely no substitute for personal experience in this particular game. The mylar is very thin, but its surprising how it can swell the total combined volume of the windings. Cheers, Tony. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Yes, the further I get the more alternatives that come to mind to try and make it easier, better or faster. I have an idea for my final transformer, the BIG one, that I reckon will make it far easier to wind than the first three. Will take some time to set up but I'm confident will make it even better than these earlier ones. Regarding the mylar, I do wonder if I didn't wind it so tight it might allow the next layer of wire to sink in a bit better ... but not really game to try that. Best advice that I've managed to follow so far I think was from Klaus, was to wind the smaller ones first so I'd have some experience to tackle the big one. Cheers, Roger |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Anyone who's unwound an AeroSharp transformer knows what a mess the mylar ends up in and how hard it is to reuse in its crinckled state.  It works much better if you iron it but takes a long time to do ... Haha ... Not true!!! If you clamp one end, hold it out with one hand and walk along waving a hot air gun over it ... it magically smooths out and looks almost like new. Then it is really easy to roll up and handle for reuse. It requires care that you don't overheat it or the edges curl ... but it is a quick and easy job to do and well worth it. One headache is that it picks up lots of dust and rubbish via static ... so I find I also just pull it through a damp rag to wipe off all the rubbish before I wind it up ... and it then also feels nice and clean. Otherwise you can see all sorts of dust and lint wrapped up with the new transformer and that just looks wrong.  Cheers, Roger |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Klaus is the absolute master of this stuff Cheers, Tony. |
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| renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
Klaus isn't the master, he doesn't use polyurethane.  Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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| renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
BTW I just buy new tape from regal bleriot, you can pull tight and it doesn't break when new, used stuff is sometimes fragile and brittle. http://www.regalaustralia.com.au/index.php Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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| renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
Where is bloody Klaus anyway, he hasn't been on here for years. Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
He hops into his camper van and goes bush whenever the mood takes him, which is fairly often........ Cheers, Tony. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Whoops, I stand corrected, my apologies Mark ... plus I really need to acknowledge Tony as well. Without his design, input and readiness to help, I wouldn't even be attempting a build like this. Thanks everyone. Haha, you may have a point there. Looks like you're one of a kind still. Cheers, Roger |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Do you recall roughly what you paid for it Mark ... and also what size a roll it was. I bought some rolls around $20+ each when I ordered my new copper wire, but when it arrived they were tiny little rolls that wouldn't have done more than one lap each around a 3kW transformer. I was very disappointed. Cheers, Roger |
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