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Forum Index : Windmills : f n p gridtie windturbine, triple stator
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| kitestrings Senior Member  Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102 |
Seems like a simple low-cost solution. I'm still not totally satisfied with ours. Our actuator has built in potentiometers, which allows you to set/program preset stops. This seemed good to me, but I'm not sure if it (the resistive track & wiper) is affected by temperature, moisture or if we still just have too much current loss. I find in some conditions it stops just short of its intended set-point(s). I'd tried running of the battery on my truck, right on the thing, and I get the same results, so I'm not sure. |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Hi KS, yep its simple fix for my problem,but my cable length is a lot less than yours, Can you increase your voltage and or use more cables to reduce the loss? Its a bit of a bugger that Daves switch never worked correctly,Im sure it would have eventually,,but Ive gone away from that auto idea now, its just somthing else that could fail. Im trying to keep it simple. |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Now the furling works better with the higher voltage video |
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| kitestrings Senior Member Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102 |
That sounds much better. I'd say your off to the races. I had a few minutes to poke around on ours, and what I've determined is that it is not the voltage to motor/actuator that is the problem now. It is when the control signal is too weak. It is a nominal 12V ignition signal, but it is traveling close to 400' I guess to get from the charge controller to tower base. I've found that if I keep this voltage higher/steady everything works fine. Just got to look at boosting there I'm thinking. Hellish winds hit our area this week. Widespread outages. Several days of clean up before all are back with power. Thanks for sharing. |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Ha, yep off to the races, Did you get some good readings from your turbine with those winds? Could you use a converter to boost your voltage? |
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| kitestrings Senior Member Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102 |
We sat out the roughest stuff; mainly on Sunday night, but most of the day Monday as well. There were winds recorded atop nearby Mt Mansfeld at about 120 mph; I think we had 6-70 here. I had fully furled the turbine with the resistor bank "on", but did not short the windings or tie off the blades. It was rockin' our house. I had a few day highs jotted down from the charge controllers, A & B watts respectively: A 2896, B 1350, input 126.2 V A 2755, B 1265, input 112.2V A 2660, B 1295, input 117.1V |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Wow thats some wicked winds, and impressive outputs. |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Still holding together after storm this morning. video |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
A Storm is rolling through at the moment with gusts here over 80kmh, Turbine has put out over 2.5kw peak now. the single stator high voltage inverter maxed out at just over 1kw before turbine maxed out, should have got the 1.5 kw model for that stator. I would be getting close to 3kw if I had the 1.5kw high voltage model. Can not say enough about how good these blades are,when a big gust comes through the turbines blades sound like a turbo prop planes blades winding up at an airport lol, Output for the last day is 8 kwh.  |
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fillm Guru  Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Hi Flic, Yep any other type of blades left way, way behind the GOE in all winds, anyone who believes that Tapered Twisted blades are a requirement or that could outperform the GOE 222 on any turbine under 5kw is mistaken. I would gladly eat my hat if proven otherwise. I constantly get emails back from customers that have bought and fitted my GOE Blades to an existing turbine and it is always the same 'WOW unbelievable." or Can not believe the difference! and if we supply a fully set up balanced blade set then it " Runs so Smooth " . On a 5kw Huaya in WA we supplied a full Variable Pitch Replacement Set @ 4.6 mtr Dia, the feed back from the customer was " in the wind speed that the original F/glass Twist/ Taper set @ 5.8mtr Dia were just starting to turn the OZ Wind Set were up and producing 250W to 500W" . I would not beat yourself up about loosing 1000th of and amp/hr of accumulated power in high wind and look at the big picture, but brag rights of peaks sound good but are not indicative of overall accumulated power performance. Fence palings at the correct angle will give good power in 12m/s +. You will probably find that even at full furl with the GOE you will get 30% + power in high winds and reduces tower loads. And if you think you have any chance of stopping those blades with fancy electrical PWM braking circuits on an F&P in high wind ... its not going to happen. I've smoked 3 Axials over the years with them and the AXFX has 10x more field strength than a F&P. When the F&P Reaches max output torque drops away quickly as the stator saturates , output will hardly increase and its just to easy to over speed, they wont burn out but if your blade hub is not up to it its game over. With your GTIs being able to raise the working voltage can take gives advantages with higher peak output and probably a little more accumulated power.It is my opinion given 2 identical F&P Duals with 3mtr GOEs and one wired for a GTI the other for Battery Charging there would not be a great difference in overall power production as it only comes back to how efficiently the blades extract power from the winds in a range of 3 - 8m/s. I saw this in the early days when I was data logging an axial flux against a F&P Dual. Its good that you are continuing the development of F&P wind turbines and taking the time to share what's happening and hope you keep contributing to the forum in the years to come. PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Thanks for the comment Phill, I have allso used tapered blades in the past and they just don't perform like these goe222 blades, I agree that there is no stopping these blades at full power, , have to wait for gust to ease off then fully furl the the tail ,wait for rpm to drop off then switch on dumoload or whatever braking system to bring it under control . |
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| kitestrings Senior Member Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102 |
flc, Sounds like you got a serious test of the thing, and 2.5 kW and 8 kWh is impressive. If we can get 3, 4, 6 kWh in a day that has reasonable winds I'm much happier than when these big blows roll thru - as they do - and your up at night wondering if you should of shut down. I wholeheartedly agree with fillm that the accumulated power in the end is what matters. Folks often ask, "what's that thing put out?", kind of like comparing torque and hp ratings on a pick-up I guess. To me this really has little significance. I like that I can produce 500-1,500 watts in what seems to be light winds at ground level. And, I'd rather be able to say that it's been up for 8-years (ours hasn't yet) with minimal repairs, and it allows me to...have lights, water, refrigeration, television...during months when our PV does squat. I remember years ago watching a show where an "explorer" offered one of the natives money for his hammock; his response, "but where would I sleep". I have no experience with the GOE blades, but by all accounts they sound well suited. Maybe I'll get to try them some day. I believe a twisted blade perhaps starts a bit early, but that is of no real significance. I'm not sure I agree with this statement phill, unless there is a well-suited diversion load. The benefit with grid-tie is that you you always have a home for those kWhs. With batteries, in a prolonged blow (or in our case where we have sun too) the batteries are soon full...okay so now we pre-heat water...but now the thermostat is satisfied...and if no ones home pretty soon we're dumping. I guess it is producing power, but there comes a point where it is just needless wear and tear. kind regards, ~ks |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Gday KS I agree with you about being happier with moderate winds, I was right on the point of shutting it down with that recent big blow, I think now that I should have, like you say its better to have it last for 8 years rather than 8 months, next time It blows like that it will be shut down, I just had to see what it would do, if I had got the hub right , the peak output and so on. because there will b a time when we are not home to shut it down and its blowing hard,it has to be able to hold together. I think I will change one of the stators,at some stage,I might change the 3x12 pole star for a 4x9 pole star, it will cut in later but provide more power and load on the blades for mid to high rpm,help keep things under control. The uncut high voltage stator does most of the work in low winds and cuts in around 85-90 rpm. |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
More howling winds here,Turbine getting workout again, decided to check hub, and not really suprised to find a small crack on a blade sapport strut , easily fixed.  |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Hi dave, You have taken it as " where it " goes. My statment was rather "how it" converts wind to power in the first place and at what point its measured. My meaning was and is that given 2 F&P Duals the same wind conditions and same blades & Dia but given 2 differing scenarios to put the power grid or batts. By measuring in w/ hrs directly after rectification would take the full battery or the grid down out of the equation. Of course the F&P Stators would need to be configured to suit for their intended specific use Grid or Battery Voltage , but at the end of the day we would see very little difference in output from the both in the light to average winds. In 24hrs of screaming gales of above 10m/s of course the higher voltage will be in front, but in reality how often is that... In Freds case its probably more that what I get . PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| kitestrings Senior Member Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102 |
I see what you're saying now film. Thanks for clarifying. flc1 - Where is this crack? Does it mean taking it down to repair? |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Hi KS, Its on one of the sapport struts for the blades,just welded it again, I don't think I added enough weld when I built it, and not shutting it down in 80+ kmh winds and watching it get a thrashing in that last storm didn't help . |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
I had a look inside turbine while its still sitting on the shed floor waiting to be moved to our new property, and I noticed that the joint between the two shafts which has the 3 stators on ,was cracked ,,so its a weak spot, that I have to strengthen with more weld lol, and then I won't be able to slide the front rotor cap back off the stator to service the bearing while it is still mounted on base ,because of the weld on shaft, Now I will have to remove blade hub and then remove the whole shaft with 3 stators to be able to service the front stator bearing, bugger! really need to replace all three stator bearings with a type the can be greased through a grease nipple,,without having to remove rotors etc, This is somthing I should have done at the START of this build, |
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DaveP68 Senior Member Joined: 25/11/2014 Location: New ZealandPosts: 292 |
Hey Fred Not been on her for over a year. Just curios about how your 2.5 kW F&P turbine is going. Is it back up flying again? Have to say haven't seen anyone else on here or any other forum that has been able to extract more than 1 kW per F&P stator! Seen many quotes over the years stating "you'll never get more than 300-400 W per stator". Well those statements have been proven false thanks to your amazing work  David There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :) |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Gday Dave,hows things? The wind turbine is currently going through another rebuild lol,thinking of useing seperte prop shaft,3 meter diameter,5 or 6 GOE222 blades 3 or 4 stators on 2 shafts with a small geared up ratio for the stators, same tail.high voltage inverter etc, long way from finnishing it, can not put it up on our present property, but we will be moving again in the near future and hopefully to a spot that can have a wind turbine,well thats the plan anyway. Did you finnish your build? Fred. |
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