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97fishmt Regular Member Joined: 19/04/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 77
Posted: 06:34pm 21 Jan 2012
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Thanks,
You made my day.
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 07:48pm 21 Jan 2012
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Well Mike it looks like the servo arena is starting to grow.
we have 1 up now and I extended the blades and it now is doing the job .
We have two more in the pipe line here mostly waiting on mounts and electronics.
WILFOR03 Tell me more about your blades maybe a picture what size pvc did you cut them from?
Did you remove the encoder and break in the back of the motor?
Some times it dosent hurt to leave them but it is extra weight and a possibility for a problem. I got one that hopefully is going up to replace a ecm in the spring that I got cheap due to the fact the break was locked up.
It took some blue smoke and many hammer blows to get the frozen break off now she turns good.
keep up the good work guys
IsaiahURL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
wilfor03 Newbie Joined: 22/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 5
Posted: 09:00pm 21 Jan 2012
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Made these from 4" PVC pipe from Lowes. Cut it into three sections 36" long, then
measured off 1 3/4" on the right side (tip), ran a paint tape down to the opposite
bottom corner (root)for a straight line to cut on, then rounded over the leading edge
and feathered the trailing edge for a knife like shape. Whoala....took maybe a half
hour for all three. Balancing takes a lot longer than building them.
I've built these with only testing in mind, wooden(chainsaw) blades will follow
once I like what I'm comfortable with. Here's a couple pictures for ya. Hollar if
I can help with anything else......
Oh, yes, I did break open the servo when I first got it. The break was locked on it
so I broke open the motor, pulled the brake assembly off (heavy bugger! )
and pulled the encoder guts out at the same time. Not really that much of a hassle,
either. Beefy bearing in these things, too!
Bill
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 01:44am 29 Jan 2012
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wilfor03
What do you do with the drop wires? do you drop them through the mast pipe or let them dangle on the outside.IM working on some Idea's for a new mount .URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
wilfor03 Newbie Joined: 22/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 5
Posted: 03:50pm 29 Jan 2012
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Hey Isaiah....
I just route my servo wires through a cable strap on the motor mount, then down through
a 3/4" hole through the bearing on top of the tower pole/mount and then into a 20a male/female extension cord plug (down about 2' inside the tower pipe). The plugs are wired together with coat hanger straps and electrical tape to keep them from wiggling apart. Just a quick change way of swapping out motors when I want. Been working for over a year now pretty well.
Hope this helps you out a bit 'n let me know if ya need anything else.
Cheers......
Bill
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 05:28pm 04 Feb 2012
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wilfor03
Thank you for the help information .Im working on a mount for one of my servo's and will be incorporating some of this technology as I go.IT will be my first stab at a furling tail.Ill try to get some pic's as I go, the Michigan weather will decide when I work on some of it.
Where did every body go?
IsaiahURL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
piggweed Newbie Joined: 09/01/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 29
Posted: 06:21pm 04 Feb 2012
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I am still here. I have my batteries, I just need to pick them up. They are seven 100ah Interstate gel batteries and seven 90ah Interstate gel batteries. My brother has them in his garage. I have had to slow down some, for health reasons. I am working on the furring tail motor mount and I need to paint my tower. As soon as the mount is made I will post pic's.
bvan1941 Newbie Joined: 06/05/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 24
Posted: 11:16pm 07 Feb 2012
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97fishmt,
I think I have the same Rhone tower 45G as you show for the 70' big unit. The pipe at the top on mine, measure 2" outside diameter. Is your's on the 70'the same? What size pipe did you use between the mount and tower?
The wall thickness on mine are so thin I would not want to put a mount,gen, and rotor (+/- 100-110 lbs.) up there and have confidence it stays there with any wind over 20mph.
Bill Bill
97fishmt Regular Member Joined: 19/04/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 77
Posted: 01:33am 08 Feb 2012
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Hi Bill,
I modified the top section.
It has 3" pipe on top.
I have another top section that is flat
that I will also outfit with 3" pipe.
Remember to take care with welding the
tower because of the galvanizing.
Mike
bvan1941 Newbie Joined: 06/05/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 24
Posted: 02:33am 08 Feb 2012
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OK Mike,
That sounds reasonable and safe. I'm thinking of sawing off the taper part, welding a top plate with a 3" hole in its place. I would then put another plate 6'-8'below that for stability / strength. How does that sound?
By the way your original top mount didn't show any off-set to assit furling. On your 70' tower and "big" Generator / 10' rotor, did you put in any off-set?
BillBill
97fishmt Regular Member Joined: 19/04/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 77
Posted: 04:12am 08 Feb 2012
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Yes that's what I'm going to do with the one that has a plate
on top.
The mount is 12" wide with the yaw tube all the way to one side.
The motor is positioned all the way to the other side, giving
6" of offset.
I'm thinking of getting up there to play pretty soon. Maybe tomorrow!
Mike
bvan1941 Newbie Joined: 06/05/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 24
Posted: 07:49pm 08 Feb 2012
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Mike,
I have watched a servo for 3 weeks and won a bid for it yesterday.
It's a 1500 rpm,28.7A,156V,4.7kw Servo. Price was very reasonable ($150). I'm OK with that! Can't buy materials and better performance by making it myself!
I anticipate 9.6 rpm/v-- approximately 144rpm @cut-in for 15V charging performance. Think its got a pretty good for the price.
My intentions are to use this servo in an experiment to enhance low-med windspeed performance.
My seasonal windspeed is 9-20mph when I have it and what I want to design the project for.
Ideally, my thoughts are to couple this servo with a "chain driven" transmission (Chris Olsen's) and use a (5) bladed GOE-222 rotor! All this to maximize power made good, in that lower half of the wind band.
Not sure if I can bring this all together. There are significant machining and material cost challenges that are not insignificant to overcome with this project !!
I also have (2) Rhone towers, one 45G and a second one I can't identify. Both are approximately 40' tall.
I am glad you described the mount you made for your big unit on the 70' tower!
I want to copy that and use the offset too. I'm concerned with tower strikes though and want your opinion on setting the rotor ahead of the yaw axis enough to minimize any strike concerns. I know much of that depends on many rotor variables.
Whew, lots of big challenges, thoughts and plans hunh? Hope I can bring this to completion. I hope my wife doesn't kill me during this process--LOL. Already my friends think --- "I've gone round the bend with this obsession on Servos/WTs."
Bill
Bill
97fishmt Regular Member Joined: 19/04/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 77
Posted: 09:37pm 08 Feb 2012
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I would not try a gear box on that one just use it as is with your
new 9' blades.
A gear drive is going to eat up all the low wind power
available.
I know your chomping at the bit to get going but, 8' and
bigger can be a disaster if you don't have it right.
I would recommend starting on a smaller machine for the
first try and learn from it. A 6'er on your tower will
still give you tremendous satisfaction.
All the work with a servo motor for a wind turbine is
in the tower and the mount with a furling tail. You
need to get this right so it wont self destruct.
I can give advice on how I did it and it has been reliable
but, You may have better ideas and will have to build it
and observe and make changes to make it work for your site.
Still I'm glad your eager to prove it can be done. You will
definitely be the envy of the neighborhood.
Back to the gears, are you trying to get higher voltage?
I did a 5:1 years ago that worked ok but for me the servos
I've tried out so far turn so freely that a nice set of blades
spin up and fly in very low winds and start charging under 8mph.
I found very large servos so I'm good with the power they put out
for my 12 and 24 volt systems. I do have a 600 volt motor that would
work well for 48 volt if I go there, or try a transformer long
distance thing.(I don't have the grid so dealing with the power is
a whole other thing to tame and has been a challenge.)
Have fun and be safe Bill,
we want to see you succeed.
Mike
bvan1941 Newbie Joined: 06/05/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 24
Posted: 10:01pm 08 Feb 2012
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Mike,
Yeah I am anxious, maybe too much. But I will try my Fanuc servo on "direct drive" first.
I just got back from the machine shop, discussing matching the tapered motor shaft to the tapered shaft on the Powermax hub sent with the blades. Big difference! Getting a price for making an adapter! By the way scrounging his "yard" I found some nice 31/2" Gal. pipe I can adapt for my rhone tower, I think. Also trying to feel him out on taking some of his "scrap" metal for fabrication of all associated project pieces. We'll see how all that works out. I'm hoping for the best, will probably know in next couple of days.
Again, thanks for the good advice and support.
Bill
Bill
97fishmt Regular Member Joined: 19/04/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 77
Posted: 11:50pm 08 Feb 2012
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I weld on a taper-lock hub and then it's done.
The smaller machines (under 1000 watts) get just
a sprocket with the taper-lock hub (maybe $10)and larger
machines get a more substantial taper-lock hub (maybe $25).
Then the bushing for the shaft size.
It works great and any props can be used on other
motors with different shaft sizes.
I have turned a motor shaft down before by putting a
bolt in the end of the motor shaft and turning it with a
drill and using a file to get it where I want.
I've also welded in material into hubs and then drilling
them out as a smooth bore. It's all a pain in the a$$ if you
don't have the right equipment, and I don't.
The taper-locks are a good set up. I haven't had one fail yet.
I've had hubs with set screws come loose a few times.
3" pipe inside 3 1/2" pipe is a nice fit not much slop for a
bearing. I'm not sure about 3 1/2" and 4" if that's what your
thinking. I know 2 1/2" and 3" needs to be shimmed.
It's just one thing after another. All a learning experience.
Mike
Don B Senior Member Joined: 27/09/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 190
Posted: 12:35am 09 Feb 2012
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Hi Bvan1941
If you look back through this post, you will see that the rated voltage and RPM of a servo can not be used a guide to its rpm per volt when operated as an alternator. In reality, the rpm per volt will be significantly greater than the 9.6 that you have calculated.
The best test is to spin the (secured) servo up in a lathe or similar, and have it connected via your charging circuit to a battery of the voltage that you plan to use. If you can measure the rpm needed to just start to charge the battery, then you will know the true cut in rpm.
On the matter of having gearing between the turbine and the servo, if you decide to do that, I would have a look at timing belts rather than chain or gears. Timing belts run dry, and have lower friction losses than chains. The only thing that they need is probably some sort of cover to keep the sun etc off them.
I expect that you would be able to find data from a manufacturer such as Gates, but I can give you a link to an Australian supplier who has excellent data if you wish. Timing belts are available in all sizes and power transmission capabilities, and the associated pulleys can have taperlock bushes to suit just about any sort of shaft.
Regards Don B
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 01:41am 09 Feb 2012
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Bvan1941 if
If you hook that motor up with the rectifier you are going to use.
Then hook it to a battery that is discharged and you will find your figures are pretty close to right.
You can turn the motor with a cordless drill and if you have one of those electronic tac's you'll see the cut in speed.The cordless two speeds top out on the low side around 300 rpm so if your motor reaches cut in and the drill is not at full speed yet your good. Don't run the cordless to long loaded as it will let the smoke out!
If you hook it to a battery that is full charged the cut in will appear to be a bit higher.
We just got a couple of motors in and the figures worked out pretty close and it looked like 50 rpm more for a full charged battery.
You may have to do some experimenting with blade diameter to get the charging where you want it.
You have a nice motor and just needs a matching set of blades.
As Mike says you have to match the blades to the motor and your wind speed.
I turned the taper straight on one Fanuc just far enough to suit the hub if that is of any help.
Im not sure what Mike dose with his motors but if they have a break and encoder in the back end we remove them. less problems and less weight
IsaiahURL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
bvan1941 Newbie Joined: 06/05/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 24
Posted: 03:43am 09 Feb 2012
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Mike, Don and Isaiah,
plenty of good solutions once again!!
Mike, can you point me at the Co.you purchase them from? I don't have any knowledge on "taper-locs". Maybe look online. It sounds like they offer flexibility with hubs and all. In this first Fanuc project, I have the taper of the Powermax hub to contend with also. Basically, I have two different tapers to contend with. I like the 3" together with 3.5"pipe for the tower top stub! "My learning curve will be a lot shorter, with the help you and others are giving me". Thanks!
Don,I haven't recieved my bridge rectifiers yet, but will follow what you described to establish "cut-in" and some real power figures to work with. The transmission project will be after my first "direct drive" is up and running. Yes Gates has nice power drive belts. I would have had them for the Prop drive on the "Challenger" Ultralite aircraft I "was" going to buy a couple years ago!! Still would like info on the Aussie dealer you mentioned, for data.
Isaiah, I'm hoping my theory for picking out this 1500rpm Yaskawa Servo works out. I will post figures for actual measurements when my rectifiers arrive. Yes I removed the Tach and brake on my Fanuc already-- not to hard when one has Mike and Adam around to "spoon feed you"- LOL. For blades I'm commited initially to 9.2' Powermax blades but, I might have to downsize some, we'll see. I'm going to post actual figures for both motors for the new people and the guys like you and Mike to support what you already know and have related to others! Maybe, a "Servo"
community will develop and create a separate section (on here)to share and compare results. LOL "Just kidding" !!
Thank you all,
Bill
Bill
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 04:06am 09 Feb 2012
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Bill, taper lock fittings have become a world standard way of fitting pulleys and sprockets to various sized shafts.
The blue thing is the taper lock bushing.
While the taper bored into the pulley is standard, you can then buy suitable taper lock bushings to fit a very wide range of shaft sizes in both metric and imperial sizes.
These can be bought anywhere in the world, from companies that sell industrial drive hardware.
Being tapered, it shrinks down onto the shaft with enormous force once the screws are tightened. By removing the screws and reinserting them into alternative threaded holes, the same screws become jacking screws to separate the taper from the pulley.
Very ingenious, and a very effective way to secure something to a shaft.
Cheers, Tony.
bvan1941 Newbie Joined: 06/05/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 24
Posted: 04:07am 09 Feb 2012
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Mike,
I forgot to answer your question about me wanting to raise the voltage. Yes I do, but not on this first project with the Fanuc. I want to observe its output for a while. Because of the Fanuc's speed range of 2000 rpm and the Yaskawa's 1500 rpm range, I might swap them for the second project using a 5 blade GOE-222 and the transmission for max. power output in my short windy seaon. Additionally Chris Olsen has shown significant power increases using a MPPT Controller with a similar set up I'm describing. Actually I'm copying his concept- with a rotor I think would optimize what little winds we have here.
I'll post more thoughts and ask for advice on this second project as I get closer to spending effort and money on it. Hope the "boss" doesn't read this !! LOL
Thanks Mike,
Bill Bill
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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