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Forum Index : Windmills : Vawt...going in a big way
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mac46 Guru  Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
VK4AYQ, Thank you for the "link" on the desulphator, I'll have a look. Yes, just love the spring time. I'm usually too busy at this time of year, but mother nature always seems to give us a break with a thunderstorm every now and then. .....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
VK4AYQ and everyone, I have ordered a desulphator, its on its way. I also took this picture of the control box's and shelves. 
The area inside being only 5 1/2 feet is alittle tight to be able to take a good picture, so this was taken looking through the doorway. Yes, thats a 3 phase 480 volt disconnect with 3- 100 amp time delay fuses. The other box to the left is for electrical controls and components. Slowly comeing together. .....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Mac Lookin good. the weight of the batteries will stop it being blown away. Bob Foolin Around |
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| smithy Regular Member  Joined: 30/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 52 |
My project is more stop start than yours but I really do appreciate the regular updates, makes me feel as though I am there. Smithy "The answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind" Bob Dylan |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Everyone, I'm not worried about it blowing away...but the weight of the batteries could'nt hurt a thing. I wanted them up off the cement floor and as close to the disconnect box as possible- within reason. I hope to have a simple incloseure for them built before winter arrives.(maybe I'll have this thing together by then). Mother nature threw her furry at us last night, quite a storm, no damage to anything, just a bunch of small limbs in the yard, nothing serious. I'd like to thank everyone for their interest and comments to this project, you've been a big help, keep e'm comeing. .....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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shawn Senior Member  Joined: 30/03/2010 Location: New ZealandPosts: 210 |
Yes it is a proud moment when trees are down around your place but the mill is still spining away 
Only after this moment I can start to relax about any new mills, I killed a few before they started to live  |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Hello Shawn and everyone, I have started to gain confidence in the strength of the air foils, The mill was "parked in it's tie-down clamps" during the storms, (4 storms in the last 3 days). Yesterday would have been an ideal day for testing because I had 20 mph + winds most of the day, however I need to get in gear and fabricate the breaking system first. I admitt I've been lagging on this one point of the project..."I'm thinking over the different ways to do this." This is one item that absolutely has to work each time every time without failure. We had 50+ mph winds in that last storm, I was more worried about the house and other buildings...did'nt phase the mill at all, shrugged it off with ease, no damage. However, I don't think it would of stood a chance had it been rotateing and makeing power during the storm. .....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Mac46 Ya know, I just had a crazy idea about your project (I'm plumb full of crazy ideas, just ask around). Anyways, here it is: If the blades were made of thin plastic material, much the same as the stuff used in a blow-up air matress, they could be deflated when the weather gets nasty and reinflated after the storm passes. I've seen some parafoil kites, which are built on this principle. The airfoil is nothing more than a fancy balloon. I know it sounds nutty, but it just might be the ticket for a ginormous build like yours. Structural support could be from the outside (like echinoderms) so aside from perhaps a ridgid leading edge, the entire blade (wing) could be made this way and pumping it full of air would achieve its aerodynamic shape. I know, I know; I'm getting on my foul weather gear before the tomatoes start flyin'! . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Hi Mac, I don't see any need to throw Tomatoes, any Idea is a good one if the end result is satisfactory. These Rubber boats you see on the rivers are Quite successful tho they are not the most efficient for engine propelled craft. If a way could be found to prevent distortion of the blade foil under load this would be a hot seller. I believe a dedicated person could find the necessary tweaks to make this into a mill saver. Yes, I would say a VAWT would be easier to work with. Congrats on the Water Heater, You Got er Done!! nice solder joints. I am anxious to see the new results, also, How about some physical dimensions on your heat collector(SQ.FT.) and the length of the tubing run. Some of your Fans out there will want to make one for themselves. Cheers----Roe Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Mac, Greenbelt, everyone, You gentelmen might be on to something, lighter is better when its this big. I did research parafoils before decideing on the solid wooden/fiberglass wings. I wanted to be able to maintain the GEO222 profile as close as possible. I was shooting for a lighter wing but the paint and fiberglass added more weight than I had thought it would. Its like Smithy said "200 rpm is going to be scarry", but its going to have to make it there first, I have my doughts. At least not in a 10 mph wind antway. "The proof will be in the pudding". I spent some time today fabricateing a secondary shaft with shives, clutch, bearings ect; I suppose I should take a picture of it before I install it. And so Mac, no tomatoes comeing you'r way, I intend on makeing a solor hot water heater modeled after you project, keep us informed with the performance. Thank you to everyone for the comments and ideas. .....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Greenbelt Thanks; often, my ideas invite vegetable wars. The solar collector panel is 38" x 43" (inside working area) as that was the size of the screen-printing frame I scrounged at the junk yard. It is 1 1/2" thick and sandwiched between the Lexan lense and the back cover (1/8" luan) is a flat aluminum sheet to which is attached (clamped with straps) 22 feet of 1/2" M copper (that's hard-drawn, thin wall copper transmission pipe). Between the bottom of the metal plate and the backplate is a sheet of 1/2" construction grade sheet foam insulation I got at Home Depot. My little pump shoves the water through at a mere trickle. The water circulates in a loop drawn from the bottom of a 20-gallon electric back-up water heater, passed through the collector and redeposited into the "hot" outlet pipe at the top of the tank. The pump is on a 24-hour timer that runs it from 10 a.m. until about 5 p.m. as that is the most intense "solar window" my roof sees on a daily basis. Half a day of use yesterday (cloud cover) produced "warm" water. Today, I measured its output at 110*F. I measure the temperature daily at 4:30 p.m. I will continue maesuring the output on a daily basis for a week or two and then post the results in one posting so all the results will be available without having to wade through lots of post replies. Twenty gallons of 110* water is surely enough for a nice FREE shower. Since the water is housed in a storage-type water heater that has an R-value of 16, it'll last well into the evening hours and stay nearly as hot as it is just after rolling out of the solar collector on the roof. Edit: Typos It just dawned on me that this is WINDMILLS. I'll post the working results back on the SOLAR forum in the thread called "I'm In Hot Water Now". Sorry, Glen; "it" happens. . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
MacGyver, Well, don't appoligise...atleast you did'nt post any pictures. I've had a chuckle out of it. I test fit the secondary shaft assembly ...need to adjust the mounting angles and change out one pulley shive for a better size, but it should work and fit the way I wanted. I'm still thinking about different ways to set up the break system, can't seem to make up my mind on that one. .....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Mac, I noticed a couple of pages back that you are going to be running a 12V system with your VAWT , I take it have you have an idea of expected output power that you can match an alternator that will keep everything in controll. The point I am thinking about is the massive amps that you would need to switch and deal with . I would think your VWAT could have an output upwards of the 5kW at a rough guess , which you are then dealing with upwards of 350A . Managing high amps can be high expence and with all the caculations and testing you have done to get to this point I am sure you would have a plan A,B & C with harnessing and controlling the power . Keep up with the posts as it is a very interesting and inspiring project even if it does gets hijacked with an "off topic" every now and then. PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
....fillm, and everyone, Plan A,B,C, and so on for many multipuls... For starters I'm going to be installing a simple GM tractor alternator,(12 volt), and also I will be installing an air compressor. At this point in the game, I truthfully have no idea what to expect for output preformance...especially in my 10 mph average wind area. I know that the mill probably won't even know the alternator is even there, but you have to start somewhere. The mill and wings did survive a sustained 50 mph wind storm with gusts well above this, but it was bolted down and stationary in its "parking clamps". Today I managed to install the secondary driven shaft assembly. 
This is it in the vice, notice the clutch assembley. I also changed out 2 of the 3 shives before instillation. I also had a contest with "Mr. Murphy" again today, I had a blown tire on the field cultivator to repair and he was not wanting to let me get the rim off the hubb, then he would'nt let me get the tire beds loose from the rim...I spent 1/2 a day on that silly tire...but I showed him who's the boss. There's nothing like working in the mudd to make my day. .....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
.....Everyone, You can see that I have an assortment of colored parts, some off of different pieces of old (junk machinery), some new from the tractor supply store. 
This is looking almost straight up, inside the mill base. The camera is giveing a distorted picture...the white chalk line is vertical and plum, its located just to the right of the clutch shaft assembly. The main pulley is off a old combine and is 18" diameter and powers the right angle gear box, 1 to 1 ratio on the gears, but it has a 8" input and a 12" output shive, this feeds the clutch assembly witch has a 8" shive comeing in. The disc break is located above the large center pully on the main shaft, I have'nt completed that portion of the project yet. If it continues to rain I'll get alot more done on this thing. Thank you all for you'r comments and guidance. .....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
Looking good there mac, but looking at that latest pic does show one concern I can see. In time those Vee-belts will loosen off and become sloppy. From what I can see there is no adjustments for belt tightness and by moving one would put the other out of alignment. Personally I would put in a couple of spring based belt tensionors then one would never have to worry about a loose Vee belt coming off and turbine spinning free to destruction. Cheers Bryan |
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| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
fillm Hmmm . . . I don't have a VAWT. I've never built one that I thought was worth a hoot. They always fail in the size - to - weight arena. Inspired by Mac46's ginormous build, I had the idea to make the blades out of wing-shaped balloons basically to keep the size huge and the spinning mass low and that may be where the confusion started. What I am building is nothing more than finishing a project I started about a year ago and that is a very tiny ax-fx. The magnets I used are so small, the air gap is only 1/4" and I intend using a "skein-wound" stator, single phase. I don't have room to put the usual coil arrangement in it and still maintain the proper air gap while realizing any useful voltage or amperage. I expect it will top out at about 14 volts and likely not more than about 3 amps. It will be used for a "topping" charger if it works at all. As you've probably noticed by now, I like to build small stuff; sometimes too small to be of much worth. As Oztules (John Tulloch) once pointed out, I build toys. Edit: Oh, I just figured it out. I'm the hijackee and fillm is talking about Mac 46, the other "Mac". I'm a little slow; sorry.
. . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Mac46 The thought just occured to me that no matter what kind of brake you make on that thing, if the V-belt were to "slip" on the 18" main pulley, all bets are off. You might want to install an alternate disc brake on the main shaft between the bottom of the windmill and the top of that main pulley if you have room so if the belt ever does slip due to weather or whatever, you have an alternat method to either slow or stop the beast! If there's not enough room to add a brake, you might be able to use the 18" pulley itself as an "emergency" disc brake. Just a thought. . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Bryan1, everyone, Yes, and thank you for pointing this out, but there are slots where the mounting bolts go through, so tightening the belts is possible. See the assembley in the vice photo, shows 2" of adjustment. The right angle gear box also has adjustment slots. Spring loaded tensionors are a very good way to keep the tension on the belts, I have plans to install them, have'nt taken the time to do this yet, still setting up the main drive line. "I also need to install the mounting brackets for the other side of the right angle gearbox. I have enough room on the clutch shaft assembly to drift it latteraly in the bearings to adjust for alignment problems. "A bit of a pain, but it can be done". A better way would have been to set up a second anchor frame "holding the clutch mounting frames", in the same plain as the upper gearbox mountings. that way they could be drifted together to maintain alignments. As it is, I have lots of spring loaded tensioners on the old machinery I will put to good use. Installing this stuff inside of a round container is a real battle, I have resorted to a plum line, a level, and a stright string, to make sense of it. That is a very vital point you have pointed out, thank you for posting. .....Mac46 
I'm just a farmer |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
MacGyver, and everyone, I want to welcome you to "my project post", but you can talk about anything you wish. I do have a "disc break" on the primary mill shaft, its located just under the interior ceiling and above the 18" main shaft pulley. I just have'nt installed the caliper break pads and associated parts. The idea of the 18" pulley as a secondary breaking point is a good one, could'nt hurt a thing to have a "back up" break system. We both know all to well how "Mr. Murphy" can sneak in and foul things up for us and ruin the day. I think I'll make plans to include this. Thank you for suggesting this. You may have just saved the entire project form catistrophic failure. "Many thanks"!!! .....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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