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Forum Index : Electronics : Time for a new Warpinverter build - #3
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| rogerdw Guru  Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Thanks Mike. I had held off on trying the saw bench but eventually needed it, so bit the bullet. Would have liked to watch the startup current but can't be in two places at once. Thanks for the heads up that the shunt pcb can be purchased seperately. Mine was faulty from the start and I was surprised and relieved that the seller was happy to send a replacement after a couple emails back and forth where he asked a heap of questions. He sent a new shunt board not a complete replacement ... but it now works fine. I might just purchase a spare at that price anyway. We chose to fly under the radar and not bother with any grid connect ... so I can't claw back any losses by exporting to the grid. Is working well so far and haven't used much of theirs this cycle.  Fortunately the inverter seems strong enough to cope with the whole house and workshop ... and of course the additional GTI takes a fair bit of load off at least during the day.We've had some brilliant weather lately so I'm always running around looking for stuff to turn on. Along with all the heating, I pulled out a 15 litre water boiler ... the type used for dispensing water for tea and coffee ... and started boiling batches to do some weed killing. Davo99 used to talk about doing that ... and while I was testing out the Warpverter I boiled heaps of water as a load test ... then poured it on the weeds around the fenceline near the workshop. It killed them promptly and virtually none have grown back in two months ... so I'm going to keep doing it. I have it strapped to a sacktruck and hook it to the hose and the power ... wait 90 mins ... then dribble it over the weeds. Did 45 litres today. I will also concentrate on the area near my ground mounted panels as I don't want to have to use a whipper snipper or ride-on too close. Had to laugh this morning, my wife said the heater in her mum's room wasn't working. Turned out it got too hot so she'd turned it off at the power point. Of course I had to reset the mechanical timer to start it up again.And I came in tonight to see my wife had turned off the air heater ... said the dog couldn't handle the heat and was panting. HAhaha! I understand the bit about having a peek every morning and find myself wandering in many times a day to check things out. Fascinating. Cheers, Roger |
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Murphy's friend Guru Joined: 04/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 648 |
I chose to keep my grid connect since it costs me nothing. By now I have about one grand of credit with the power company, thanks to the government assistance grant, which will pay my connection fees for many years to come. Especially if our generous government keeps adding to that credit  .An Inverter working well is a good thing to have when living off grid but it may be wise to have a spare on standby. I find building these things a challenge and fun all mixed together, so much so that by now I have several "spares" .I also keep a daily routine to check my home power station every morning . |
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KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
Hi Roger & Klaus, yes great idea having a spare. I have a couple of the China boards that are beasts in their own right, I posted one on my original build that I simply could not kill. But - a right pain to repair if it failed, and of course here we are today with the latest designs by Wiseguy and utilizing Poidas SPWM Code module, and all of it simple to repair if a part fails for any reason. And of course Rogers older designed and brilliant build of the very different Warpinverter proving it can still kick arse big time. Klaus has his own innovations, design and variations and is in a similar situation as myself with spares and parts, and we share a love of everything DIY and building stuff. My second WG inverter unit is almost ready to go as another backup - it's nice to be able to build your own Solar controllers and repair you own inverters, especially in these times of uncertainty and possible parts shortages - Moto - Have spares can fix. Roger, that inverter is running sweetly, congratulations again on building such an impressive off-grid system. I'm still jealous of the Land and sheds. Klaus, my thought process was the same as yours with the feed in. Edited 2024-05-08 08:28 by KeepIS It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
I didn't word that too well. We have still got the grid available here but I didn't go down the path of grid tie to try and get a feed-in tarrif ... because we are such latecomers the rate is only a few cents ... and I figured if the power providers give us a hard time, I will disconnect altogether. At the moment it is very convenient to have the grid as backup in case my inverter fails or when I need to shut it down to make any mods. I just flick off the AC-out on the Warpverter and the ATS in the meterbox just swaps over to mains without any interruption. Then when I am ready to go, just turn on the AC-out again and the ATS reverses. Yes agreed, I've been watching Wiseguy's build with great interest and figure one of them would make a great backup. As soon as he asks for orders I'll put my hand up. It's a bit of a trap ... my workbench is only in the next room so it's always tempting to go see what's happening ... but always good to see it doing what it's supposed to. Cheers, Roger |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Thanks for the kind words Mike and the support from both you and Klaus. As above I certainly would like a backup in case there's any trouble. I do need to finish off a couple of spare modules so I can swap them out quickly if there's any blowups. It actually only takes a couple of minutes to unscrew and remove a module ... that part works really well ... in fact it probably takes as long to shut it off and discharge the caps as it does to remove one. I have a reasonable stock of spare components and I can't afford to run out of anything ... but hopefully I won't need too much ... touch wood. My Nick/Poida/Wiseguy based charge controllers are going great and I've got a heap of spares for them too ... so like you say it gives a lot of confidence that they can be fixed if anything were to go wrong ... plus a great sense of achievement and satisfaction as well. Have you done any ac-coupling with your inverters Mike? If I do end up using one as a spare I might have to ration my power useage if I can't just hookup my GTI to aid in production. I've been really hammering mine the last week or so ... whenever there's any reasonable sun the Growatt GTI is running at 5kW for 6 or 7 hours a day ... and the Warpverter is running up to an additional 6 or 7kW. Any excess power is going into the battery and I've seen up to 170 amps charging at times. If the mppt's are starting to throttle back because the battery is charged, I just find more loads. Today I boiled 60 litres of water for weedkilling and ventured further afield from the workshop. Hopefully it works as well as the first batches I did. In the picture, the extra gear on top of the Warpverter is a dozen 47,000uF 63v elctros added in parallel to the main ones to increase overall capacitance. Tony was keen to see me add more to see if that would reduce some of the humming and buzz with the electric blanket and whenever the GTI runs. That makes it a total of 846,000uF!!! Should add a few more to make 1Farad ... except I don't have any more. Oh, and it hasn't seemed to make any noticeable difference. And I do need to tidy up the wiring between the Growatt and the Warpverter ... just need the next size up cable ... plus hide away the DC-In leads.  Cheers, Roger |
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poida Guru Joined: 02/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1418 |
and that is exactly why I drove this project. they work they are cheap they are easy to build they are easy to repair they are all we need: a mppt that does not cost the earth and is easily modifiable for any application. wronger than a phone book full of wrong phone numbers |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Haha yep. I still remember your first post when you started that mammoth thread and your comments resonated with me way back then and still do now. It did take me forever to get here ... but it's better late than never. Thanks for all the effort you guys have put into this. Cheers, Roger |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Well I had some fun today ... I ran the floor heaters for a while then thought I could try out our big ducted air conditioner on heating. It hasn't worked for quite a while and the last time we tried it was at Christmas time ... but it only ran a few minutes then popped the cct breaker. Took a while to get it to start up today on heat ... but same thing, dropped out the cct breaker again. Spent a little while checking it out and found the start/run?? cap was faulty ... only 12uF instead of 50. I found some 15uF 660V caps in the shed and hooked up three and it then ran again. It was pretty hairy as I had no idea what sort of power was going to be needed ... and each time it fired up the lights dimmed for a couple seconds. I saw the Warpverter output up over 10kW a number of times Hooked on a clamp meter to register the start up current and it came in at 100.4 and later 99.8A. The volts went as low as 215V at the aircon and steady state current between 22 and 26amps. It's a looong way from the Warpverter. Of course the sun disappeared behind the clouds a few times while all this was happening ... so I saw some pretty horrendous current draws from the batteries, with one at 190 amps ... though judging from the output, there were probably worse ones. The heating worked very well and it would be nice to keep using it ... but I chickened out after about an hour and shut it down ... and went back to the floor heaters. It's an Airwell aircon and probably close to 20 years old. Prated 7,310 watts and with 14kW of cooling and 16kW of heating. I understand late model aircons are a lot more efficient and less power hungry ... but seeing it works, I'm not sure I want to rip it out and spend money on a new one. Maybe if I can get my new big air heater going soon, that can take up the slack with our heating ... and in summer when we might need some cooling ... there should be enough sun to have the Growatt GTI provide 5kW and the Warpverter the rest. That way the Warpverter is not being hammered as much carrying the full load. Anyway, a learning experience ... and my nerves are slowly settling down. Phew. Cheers, Roger |
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| Murphy's friend Guru Joined: 04/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 648 |
It looks that the time to build your peak Amp meter has come, might be handy to watch during experiments like that above |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Haha, yes ... though I had the wrong type of hall effect transformer, so am still waiting on the slow boat from China for the correct type. Worst part is that I have two of the incorrect types. Cheers, Roger |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
I thought it was time for a bit of an update after noticing the Warpverter clocked over the 6,000kWh mark some time today. It's been behaving well and I have just been leaving it alone. It was officially installed on 6th of March, so it's been in action just on 6 months. Still have to make a main cover for it and for the charge controller box too!!! Combined, the 4 x MPPTs have clocked up 5,946.3kWh ... thanks Poida, Nick and Mike. I've also been working on a generator system with a home built 1.7L 4 cylinder diesel "PN" Mazda motor and a 13.2kVa 3Phase Dunlite generator. I bought it 3/4 finished but it hadn't been run in 12-15 years so were a few issues. I still have more to do to it, though I'm getting closer. I have a 3Phase 115A forklift battery charger, so I plan to use that any time the weather is unkind. I had a nasty cold a month or so ago and it's taken me a while to get back into things ... in fact I realised I was sick of working on solar and all the associated stuff ... so I decided to drag one of my old bikes out of mothballs. I did a heap of work on it and finally took it out on the road for the first time in over 20 years. Nice to do something different occasionally.     Cheers, Roger |
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| -dex- Regular Member  Joined: 11/01/2024 Location: PolandPosts: 99 |
Nice to see that your inverter and chargers are still working reliably  Mine have also been working continuously for many weeks, but we have to wait for a four-digit result. I don't know much about motorcycles, but yours looks old school. Yamaha makes great motorcycles and musical instruments too. I am a big fan of the brand, and as a bass player I use the top model from years ago, from Yamaha. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Glad to hear your system has started off okay. Good luck with your progress. I bought the bike new back in 1976 so it's definitely getting on, like me. It's amazing the range of equipment some manufacturers make. One of my daughters has a Yamaha piano and another one a Yamaha trumpet ... but I'm no musician unfortunately. Cheers, Roger |
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| FET cemetery Newbie  Joined: 17/04/2024 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3 |
Ahh the old XT500. If you haven't already looked it up you'll be amazed at what a good clean bike like that is worth now. I could be wrong but is that the last pre - electronic ignition model with points? Rebuilt one decades ago with a friend and spent half an hour towing it around a paddock trying to start it before we realised we had the timing 180 degrees out... No stone unturned, no FET unburned. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Yeah, this was the very first offroad version that came out, TT500C along with the onroad XT500C ... so it still has the basic points/coil system. It came without lights, but I fitted them so I could register it. I used to get on okay, but it can be a pig to start if you fluff the process. I need more practice. I had my wife out with me trying to push start it down our long driveway and we both ran out of steam. I drained the carby and put fresh fuel in and then it went okay. I'm not sure I'm game to tow it to try and start ... I have some nasty memories of trying that with a bike when I was a kid ... and it didn't turn out well. So did you have the points backing plate in 180 degrees out? Cheers, Roger |
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| FET cemetery Newbie Joined: 17/04/2024 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3 |
"So did you have the points backing plate in 180 degrees out?" It's a long time ago, but it must have been that because once we realised what we'd done it was a very quick fix and off it went second kick. A torquey beast of a machine. Tow starting a motorbike is not for the faint-hearted (ok it's only for the young and stupid!), I only ever did it using another bike as the tow vehicle and with a single loop of rope around the handlebar for quick release. No stone unturned, no FET unburned. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
I've been a bit slack since having the Warpverter running but I had always planned to make a few spare modules in case of any failures. Of course that hasn't happened yet so I've made a start on a spare half bridge and a full bridge board. For all the originals I used Wiseguy's idea of drilling a larger hole from behind to hold a captive nut to secure the mosfets ... but I've used (and broken) a few of the combined drill/tap/countersink bits in various other projects in the last couple years ... so I figured I'd try my luck with one on these 3mm threads. I usually pre-drill the holes marginally smaller than the drill section of my tap bit so it has an easier time cutting ... and did the same with my aluminium backplates. The bits are designed to use in an impact drill and fight their way through ... and they either make it or break off and remain stuck. Anyway, the tap worked perfectly and took only a few minutes to do 24 threads, Bit nerve wracking, but ended well. The plates are 6mm thick and I threaded all the way through ... and if it had struggled too much, I figured I would drill up from behind so the threaded section didn't have to be the full thickness. Not sure how I'd approach it if I was doing a full size heatsink ... maybe try and arrange the holes so I could do what I described in the last paragraph ... or stick to the old fashioned way ... slow and steady. I also included a larger tap so you can see more clearly how they are designed.  Cheers, Roger |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Here's a video of the tapping. I stopped to brush the swarf off the tap between threads because on the earlier ones it got a bit tight a few times when I didn't. And just out of interest, I happened to walk past the system on Saturday and it was pushing 269 amps into the battery!!!  Of course I didn't have my phone with me and by the time I got back it was at 262. The battery had got flattened the night before because one of the girls had left a big heater on ... so was nice to see it fill back up smartly.  Cheers, Roger |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
I'll have to test one of those bits, that speeds up the process enormously. That charging current is impressive, all from solar or gen? It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 852 |
Yeah I was impressed with the bits too after I saw them used on you tube. I initially bought an $80 Frost set from Bunnings ... but after I broke a couple learning to use them I bought some cheapies off ebay ... and they have performed exceptionally well. The first dozen holes I did on these plates I didn't stop to clean off the swarf ... and those took all of about 30 seconds to do ... but a few times it got tight and the impact driver started hammering so I figured I shouldn't take chances. That charging current was all solar. I have 12.6kW coming in via 4 of Poida's MPPTs and another 6.6kW via an AC-coupled Growatt GTI. All secondhand panels, though the 6.6kW lot are relatively new 440 watt ones. Cheers, Roger |
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