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flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 11:32pm 05 Sep 2017
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Cool Dave,thats the one, a wind tunnel! a single fnp stator with high voltage inverter would be good,and your pfc caps of coarse, would have to have the furling sorted properly,but you should end up with good turbine.
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 11:39pm 05 Sep 2017
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I like the analog meters with the moving needle getting a mate whos a certified electrician to check it all.Edited by flc1 2017-09-07
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 01:24am 06 Sep 2017
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I removed the disc brake when I changed the stators for the new inverter,
So the disc brake is not on the turbine. just going to rely on dumploads and manual/auto furling.
kitestrings Senior Member Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102
Posted: 04:22am 06 Sep 2017
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My bias is that furling the tail is just a kinder, more passive shut-down. I think a mechanical brake, or shorted winds works great for a parking brake when you have to work on the thing, but the tail thing does the job without fear of a burn-out, or just the rattle and shake on things.
When we want to shut down our turbine we furl the tail with the actuator, wait a minute or three and then close in the resistive load bank. It keeps the thing under 10 or 15 rpms in all sorts of wind.
kitestrings Senior Member Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102
Posted: 04:34am 06 Sep 2017
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It might be worth mentioning, or clarifying, (asking?, because I may have it wrong for your application) that there is a difference between a dump load and a load used for managing the peak voltage and/or speed of a turbine; sometimes called a clipper. I think the latter is what you are doing.
A dump load is usually paired with a PWM charge controller and is used as a means regulating charge to a battery bank. In theory the turbine is always loaded and the controller diverts excess to maintain the desired charge rate.
A clipper is usually introduced in varying degrees to cap the voltage of turbine. Especially with battery-tied systems this is necessary to replace the load removed by the charge controller as the bank reaches full charge, then float condition.
DaveP68 Senior Member Joined: 25/11/2014 Location: New ZealandPosts: 292
Posted: 11:43am 06 Sep 2017
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I can speak for Fred's set up, as supplied various parts to make it all work. His system has both a dump load and the voltage limiting system.
Remember this is a grid tie system so discussing batteries is a bit of a deviation away from what is being used here. It's all about keeping things under control like you say grid tie or charging batteries.
Anyway I don't want to steal Fred's thunder, as he will be able to explain it in more detail than I can.
My Electronic Dynamic braking circuit (for F&P only at this stage) is working well and almost in a configuration where it can be added to a wind turbine to try out. It will perform the full controlled shut down as you have described above but do it quicker. If you're interested to why I can get this braking system to shut a wind turbine down quicker, ask me the question on the Electronic Dynamic braking topic and I'll go into more detail there.There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
DaveP68 Senior Member Joined: 25/11/2014 Location: New ZealandPosts: 292
Posted: 11:55pm 06 Sep 2017
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Hi Fred
Have made up an improved 'Power Factor Correction Capacitor' set, version 2 that should give you some improvement with the top end power output.
Here's a photo of it assembled on a circuit board.
It should allow the 12x 1p Delta stator connected to your new 40 - 540 V Grid Tie Inverter to output 1 kW at just over 400 RPM. The peak power output of that new inverter (1.2 kW) should be possible at around 500 RPM.
I'll send it down to you tomorrow so you get it next week.
DavidThere are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 12:01am 07 Sep 2017
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Gday Kitestrings. David is correct with his awnser, the new high voltage inverter has a pwm controller, with dumpload resistors which it uses to control voltage, and the 45-90 inverter has dumpload resistors aswell to controll exccess voltage, if you shut off the grid all the generated power goes into the resistors, and stops the turbine sooner or later depending on how strong the wind is. I think it basically shorts out the turbine through the resistors to stop it.
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 12:18am 07 Sep 2017
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Nice work , thanks Dave, I look forward to hooking that into the system Il send that furling controller back to you for a slight tweek to improve things,or if you come for a looksee visit you can pick it up? Had a bit of wind today and it put out about 1.3 kw. It seems to start in lower winds than my old turbine,and puts out more power already without going through a storm to do it, It runs smooth at the mid rpm range so I must have got the blade pitch, tracking and balance right this time.So far its a success, still trying to learn how to operate the new inverter, the pigeon english in the owners manual doesn't help things ,and the inverter only switches on if theres wind, so if there is no wind then the inverter is switched off.Edited by flc1 2017-09-08
kitestrings Senior Member Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102
Posted: 08:11am 07 Sep 2017
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D, flc1,
Thanks for the explanations and congrat's on the progress so far. Very exciting.
Yes, I worked on induction grid-tied turbines for several year (many years ago now). The nice thing with grid-tie, and I knew this was one, is that you always have someplace for the power to go - a load sink if you will - so long as the grid is there. You still face the challenge, as you know, of how to shut the thing down if the grid goes down, or the inverter goes off-line. We had up to 60 kW units that shut-down using "dynamic braking" similar to how many shop tools stop today. Pretty cool.
Splitting hairs now...I generally think of a dump load as something that is using surplus energy, when available, to do something useful; pre-heating water, space heating, ice-making, water pumping as examples. A load-bank I think of as just substitute for load needed, or lost, to match the available turbine output or limit voltage.
Complicating things even further there are "opportunity loads" for PV that are usually called dump loads by folks that are neither.
kindly, ~ks
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 03:35pm 07 Sep 2017
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thanks KS, you know your stuff ,Im not that sharp on the electronic side of things,just sort of know the basics.,
haveing another moderate wind day today with the turbine getting to or near the 1kw output mark fairly easily,the new inverter amp meter seems to read about .3 of an amp higher than what my analog meters do
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 03:09am 08 Sep 2017
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just had one gust come through which made the turbine put out 1570w
the 45-90v inverter put out 780w for the two stators, and the 40-540v inverter put out 790w for the single stator. I was under the turbine at the inverter box when the turbine started going hard, I ran away ha! don't want to be near it if it decides to fly to bitsEdited by flc1 2017-09-09
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 01:41pm 08 Sep 2017
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another squall came through resulting in an output of 1854w , 1034w for the dual stator 45-90 and 820w for the 40-540v inverter, good stuff
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 03:47pm 08 Sep 2017
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Another big blow and 45-90 inverter put out 1039w ac and the 40-540 put out 930w ac, so thats about 1kw dc from 1 stator, over 2 kw dc from both, and it was not furling. so more to come.
DaveP68 Senior Member Joined: 25/11/2014 Location: New ZealandPosts: 292
Posted: 04:00pm 08 Sep 2017
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Congratulations Fred, you have set a new personal record for your home made wind turbine built in a farm shed with only an arc welder & an angle grinder.
Just goes to show what can be done with lots of hard work and listening to some good advice along the way.
In fact the most impressive part is getting 1 kW on DC side from a single stator!! Go grid tie inverters with a wide input voltage range. Does it feel like braking a form "barrier" so to speak?
Thing is there is still more fuel in the tank as you have yet to receive the new improved 'Power Factor Correction Capacitor" that is making it's way to you.
Look forward to hearing more updates.
DavidEdited by DaveP68 2017-09-10There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 11:12pm 08 Sep 2017
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yep thanks for the help with the electronics Dave. Turbine put out about 2.8 kwh today , I have to wire in a watt meter for the high voltage inverter as its meter zeros out everytime the inverter stops working from no wind.Edited by flc1 2017-09-10
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 11:22pm 09 Sep 2017
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The turbine starts turning at about 2.6ms wind.
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 10:24am 10 Sep 2017
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One of the older 45-90 inverters started doing some strange things, dumpload started operating for no reason, had a looksee inside and found 2 small spiderwebs on the circut boards, and it appears some fet switches have blown.
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 12:51am 15 Sep 2017
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I have got access to the online data from an anemometer above an orchard about 100m away from my turbine, Not 100% accurate because its not right next to my turbine, but still good enough for a approx wind speed reading in relation to output, so tonight I used it for first reading of 35kmh= approx 1500watts output, will be able to do daily average etc. I will eventualy buy a good pole mounted anemometer,one day lol only have a handheld one at the moment, which is only accurate up to about 30kmh.
flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242
Posted: 03:54pm 15 Sep 2017
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neighbours anemometer/weatherstation
anemometer with winturbine in the background, The turbine will be getting a good workout for the next few days with some rough weather passing through here.
5kwh output for the last 24hrs from average windspeed max of 20kmh, with gusts up to 43 kmh Edited by flc1 2017-09-17
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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