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Forum Index : Other Stuff : home brew hydrogen generator
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oztules Guru  Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
I'll second that. Do Not Use Steel Wool.... especially fine steel wool. It burns nicely in oxygen, and is a favorite fire starting method in the bush (battery and steel wool and dry leaves... woosh.... instant fire). If you wish to test the theory, use some jumper leads and a battery and some steel wool and short the wool with the leads. ..... it near explodes.... with pure O2 present it burns brilliantly white... like magnesium in air. Just don't do it. Your flash back arrester is purely to cool the gasses passing through it to below ignition point.... a heat sink if you will. You don't want a heat sink that acts like a blast furnace. .........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| steven Newbie  Joined: 24/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 25 |
ive dismantle my flashback arestors before and found no sign of internal burning what so ever i packed it so tight that you couldent even see through it lol and allso it works fine dispite all the negative things about it and if you can transmute metals with a hho flame i wonder if just the gas alone would enhance the steel wool, in any way and give it the flashback stopping power i got . i had so much safety things biult into my hho generator that it would make things that look safe, look safe . and i have my tests captured on high definition handy can video and everytime i look at it i marvel at how this super fine grade steel wool pack as tight as a deck of cards still able to stop a flashback in its fire tracks stc |
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| steven Newbie Joined: 24/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 25 |
ive read that even bronze wool can even burn. dispite my captured video proof that it works maybe its the finer grade steel wool i use compared to the maybe thicker grade bronze wool if thats the case , im the lucky one as i cant get bronze wool here and cant buy it online as i dont have a bank card so i improvised and reserched and tested this idea out and have no problems with it , my hho cell i allso spiked with a dash of electrolytic cap solution by fireing up the opened electro in the same water and bi carb mix for a short time stc |
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| steven Newbie Joined: 24/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 25 |
thankyou mac gyver youve anserwd a qestion ive wonderd about before but never found an anserw cause all these hho gas makers dident bother to explain and dispite all the saved pagers ive colected your the only one thats explained it , now i have a better idea as to why a baloon full of hho gas shrinks over night and looses its combustability , now i can work on a way to re enrgize it and keep it up and not let it flop down like it leaked out, thats the balloon. stc |
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Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Steven; MacGyver and Oztules have pointed out a very important thing to consider when dealing with oxygen, It will attack the Steel Wool and reduce it to powder rust when the Mfr's preservative has worn off, then you would have no protection from a back fire or accidental ignition, ie, Jump starting, spark plug wires, short circuit. it has been proven over and over that a water bubbler is the most effective way to isolate the HYD.generator from the outside world. MacGyver; My Generator design is probably too advanced for you to understand its current limiting capability  Just Joking. I'm curious as to why you reason it
would short circuit the battery.The Photo's below are my own, The smacks design shown in the first photo is my first Generator. Later I modified the smacks, i junked the 304 alloy wall switch plates and purchased a sheet of 316 alloy S.S., Then fabricated 16 plates but only 14 would fit in the PVC Pipe Cell The Second picture is the modified version with bubbler. My battery charger showed 14 anp at 12 volts input, notice the 2 large bubbles in the bubbler, they were coming pretty fast. Sodium Hydroxide was used as electrolyte. 
Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
I sent the wrong pic' of the bubbler even though the large bubbles are present in that pic. only one small one shows here is the correct one 
 Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| steven Newbie Joined: 24/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 25 |
idont have any drawings just pictures and video allso i have 2 bubblers ones a primary and the other is a secondary bubbler and i have the 2 inline flash back arestors after the bubbler that go to the torch stc |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
I used aluminum and high-nickel-content stainless steel for electrodes with the electrolyte made up of pure water and baking soda. "Caustic" soda (sodium hydroxide) will turn the aluminum into aluminum oxide and hydrogen without imposing a current, making it a sacrificial electrode, which I did not want. For that reason, I used what I used. Do it the way I've told you and you'll create more HHO than you'll know what to do with. If you use the same electrolyte as I did, that multi-cell rig will draw current like there's no tomorrow! One last thing: This is a "progressive" reaction. As it runs, it gets hot and as it gets hotter and hotter, the reaction goes faster and faster until it reaches a point where it can self ignite. Be careful! Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| steven Newbie Joined: 24/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 25 |
the way some of these cells are made you cant allways see any insulation between them to separate them from each other so when ya see them in action ya would think they are like an electric kettel boiling the water and with steam comeing out of it that would look like the fine misty hho. when i tested a 2 bolt electrode cell the bolts touched each other at the bottom and i dident know it till i fired it up and i got this nice underwater glow stc |
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| Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
McGyver; I am leaning more to a dependable and predictable raction Cell that could be installed in a vehicle with a rasonable service life. Aluminum is used in many recipes as a catalyst for hydrogen production, and most ,if not all require a rigid control system. Thermal run a way is as you say, a dangerous condition. I would not recommend using Aluminum in any way in this generator. BTW, Your windmill Compressor is a novel way to store energy. I have not had time to mess with the HYD. generators lately but here is a pic. of the top that would fit on this design. I previously made up a how to build it instructable for a different web site but decided not to post it. 
Here is a introduction statement for that post. Introduction; What ever you call it, This Device Rip's up Water. With its multiple atributes it can rip up a shop bench blow out windows and ruin a good life. I have seen on the net where people claim to have lit the output hose with a match or lighter, Don't fall for this invitation to get hurt badly. Bang bang fun, Is it worth a lifetime of blindness from Lye, flying pieces of metal and plastic "You 're the Judge". If you smiled when you read this you should not build one. Booster 0 is a drawing of what you are building, it contains the info necessary to build one but it also looks like too much to deal with. This is not at all difficult to build, what I found difficult was bonding the acrylic container (CASE) When I finally succeeded to stop the leaks it looked like kids had played with it while I was away. all through the steps to follow you will see a nag to clean your parts with alcohol , also use gloves when handling. I thought that soap and hot water rinse would do the job. wrong.! another mistake was using acrylic bond from" Lowes", a double tube that was difficult to operate when trying to extract equal parts of the resin. And it does not dry clear. When all sides were bonded to the bottom I filled it with water, only 2 seams did not leak. Now trying to get the resin mix into a V corner from a swab is messy-messy. Step #1, Determine the size of your booster plates acording to the displacement of your engine. That is 240 square inches of total plate area for each Liter displacement. A 2.2 liter engine would need 528 sq. ins. I do it like this, 528 / 16 plates = 33 / 2 sides =16.5sq. ins. surface on 1 side Now you will need to locate a mounting place in your Engine compartment. In some cases the booster will fit better if it is wider than it is tall, Only You can decide the shape of the plates. The one I built Had 432 sq. in. for a 1.8 liter subaru. the plate size, 432/16 = 27/2 sides = 13.2 on 1 side. 13.2 divided by my chosen plate width 3 1/4". resulted in 4" tall. Keep in mind that a Bubbler will have to be mounted near the booster, Both in a cool area. Between the grille and the radiator is a good place if there is room. Step #2 Order the S steel plates or pick them up from your local supplier, in my area the nylon rods were not easy to find, this may be something you will have to order.The "Weld On" bonding cement is not stocked at Lowes or Home depot but can be ordered on line. may also be available where aquarium's are sold. Make a run to the local building supply store, Lows, Home Depot, etc. Acrylic sheet .22 thick. 2ea. Stainless bolts and nuts #12 X 2 1/2" 1 Nylon elbow male, 1/8 pipe thread X 5/16 hose 1 PVC, or grey plastic pipe plug 1/2"Pipe thread 16 nylon washers 1/4" thick X 5/16" hole size 16 nylon washers 1/8 thick X 5/16" hole size Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
What really bothers me about that browns gas in a vehicle idea is where is the electricity coming from? If the alternator is driven from a turbo using waste engine pressure fine, but if its driven from the crankshaft pulley then it takes power from the engine. I doubt that the overall efficiency would improve then. So, a solar panel on the roof perhaps? Klaus |
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Cornelius Newbie Joined: 26/12/2008 Location: NorwayPosts: 27 |
The energy stored in the hydrogen are not extracted/burned directly when injected together with air/fuel and ignited in an internal combustion engine, but act as an 'flaming accelerator' to the gasoline; thus making the gasoline burn more efficient. The more efficient burn, more than compensates for the extra load on the alternator/engine... Wikipedia say someting about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_enhancement Cornelius |
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| steven Newbie Joined: 24/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 25 |
nice to read all this input now ive taken an experimental step in checking out my hho cell i used a key chain lazer to tyndal test my cell the same method ive used for agers in tyndal testing my home made coliodal silver now this is what i got the beam is highlighted red the same as it dose with colliodal silver to indicate the presence of silver ions but in the hho cell im not sure what it is but in the center of the beam on the left or the cell is a mysterious white energy band of some kind thats only visible on my handy cam screen and not to the naked eye this inner white beam inside the red laser moves to the right a bit and then back to the left and it dose not go all along to the other side of the cell where the beam exits so i wonder what it is thats comeing up and why it only shows up on the hd handy cam screen and why i cant see it with the naked eye, the white colour is the same as you get in the center of the hho flame but this hasent got the mystierious outer yellow aura serounding this white band of energy, as i have a snap shot taken from slow motion video of the ignited hho gas and it has the inner white energy and its serounded by a very bright yellow aura stc |
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| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but the fact is this: The energy it takes to split the water into its constituent atoms is more than the energy you get when you re-oxidize (combust) the mixture. The thing will finally come to a stop if you use it in a car. It is not self-sustaining; sorry :O( A better application and by the way, what I was working on, is to use photo-voltaic to generate a small current and merely collect the free gas. I did not collect "Brown's Gas"; I collected pure hydrogen (I scrubbed off the oxygen using iron filings I turned on my lathe!). Don't spend a lot of time on this trying to make it work in an automobile. I've already wasted enough time for the both of us. It' just doesn't pan out! I spend the majority of my time now building things that work; air engines and windmills. I also have a hydroponics Web site and grow tomatoes! :O) Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Here is a Blog I wrote some time ago that expresses my personal belief about the role played by the hydroxy gas when mixed with engine fuel.My credentials are Employed all my working life 55 years ( I'm 74 Years old retired ) on Internal combustion engines. The last 26 years in factory maintenance which included forklifts trucks, front loaders, extrusion machinery, pneumatic Hydraulic electrical systems. I like science and all things that can be shaped to suit a need. But again This is only one opinion. Cornelius (Page 6)is saying the same thing with much fewer words. Potential Energy : Potential Energy versus obtainable Energy equals efficiency.This is the case of the Hydrogen - Oxygen electrolyzer debate. Dynamics of combustion. This is exactly why they work. It has nothing to do with alternator load and the fuel value (heat) of a small quantity of hydrogen. A vehicle with a normal fuel usage of 20 miles per gallon gasoline will go 20 miles +( Example,1000 ft.) highway driving when using a Hydrogen booster, but only when a separate battery is used for the Hydrogen booster's power source .If the booster uses the alternator then a 1/3 horse power penalty will be invoked. causing a reduction in original economy.( conservation of energy and mechanical losses and alternator efficiency) The above has no violations of scientific laws The real life fact is , A hydrogen booster as a extra source of fuel is a loosing argument. anyone who tells you an alternator can produce power without requiring extra effort from the engine does not know. You can be certain of that. Grand Coulee Dam was built because its pretty and the 90 ton turbine that drives a 1,000,000 horse power Alternator," Well that was to show off our capabilities in machine work". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Water_turbine_grandcoulee .jpg Why Do They Work?. Combustion dynamics. We've heard many times, engines are not efficient, the greatest loss to efficiency is heat loss, the cylinder head and engine block as well as pistons soak up extreme quantities of (BTU.Heat Units) The cooling system removes about 27% (guess) of the total heat produced from the fuel you use, about 49% goes out the exhaust pipe,and 24% is converted to power at the drive wheels. The mechanical losses are included in the heat loss. Why is so much heat wasted ?. Time.(1) Time to burn at high engine speed,(2) Time for the piston to travel at low engine speed . Hydrogen injection modifies the whole dynamics of the common fuel burn program. (1) The burn rate of gasoline/diesel must be coordinated to exert maximun pressure on the piston when it's crankshaft position is 15-20 degrees after top center of the compression stroke. At high engine speed it is necessary to begin the fuel burn before the piston has ended its compression stroke, " Before top center," this adds a braking resistance to the forward direction of the engine. At some point down the cylinder, the fuel completes its burn, often after the exhaust valve has opened releasing potential energy to the exhaust pipe. The cylinder wall has been exposed to burning fuel through out the full length. Now that the exhaust valve is open, the hot gas remains in the cylinder because of back pressure from the exhaust system, more time to store heat in the engine metal.This is not a bad thing for the next power cycle, as a hot cylinder will better vaporize the gasoline. But energy is wasted on the exhaust stroke because the piston must force the burned gases out the valve port. All the above will transfer an exceptional amount of heat to the coolant system. (2) Slower engine speed at high load demand, accelerating from a stop, Near full load at low engine speeds. The high rate of fuel being burned behind a slow piston transfers its energy to the cylinder wall. So- what does hydrogen change ?-- Time.! It is claimed by booster makers that hydrogen in the fuel charge serve as millions of miniature spark plugs that energize the hydrocarbon molecules that surround it, in so doing the fuel charge has many flame fronts.and is consumed in much less time which increases combustion temperature and therefor higher pressure to drive the piston. What would be the impact on an engine that could begin fuel burn at 0 degrees, "top dead center" at 2400 rpm. and also have the fuel burn complete at 18 degrees of power stroke, at maximum pressure. The piston has moved less than 1/8 inch down the cylinder. Due to the extreme burn rate the temperature of combustion will be higher, the pressure will also be higher. there is no negative braking force from advanced spark timing Pressure is what drives your engine.and the early burn allows the expanding gases to push the piston at higher pressure through nearly a full stroke, the early burn also reduces the exhaust temperature which means that more energy was converted to work The low pressure exhaust requires less energy to purge the cylinder. (Exhaust stroke) In newer lean burn engines with variable valve timing and fuel injection you should not alter your fuel to air ratio, In winter this could cause hard starting and rough running, alcohol in gasoline requires a richer ratio. The one thing you must do is retard the spark timing, if you do not, then fuel burn will happen on the compression stroke with a high tendecy to drive your engine backward . A note about Boosters; I do not Sell them I do not make them for sale. I have built one for testing (SMACKS) Do the boosters really work? "I don't Know"." But spark plugs Do"! Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| Cornelius Newbie Joined: 26/12/2008 Location: NorwayPosts: 27 |
Oh, seems like i put some fuel onto the fire... 
My opinion (and point) are the same as Greenbelt; and MacGyver: Adding Hydrogen/HHO to air/fuel mix can make the fuel more efficient in an internal combustion engine, but not as a fuel in said engine alone without external power added. There are several scientist that agrees on this, but the scientist community as a whole haven't said ''this is so!' yet (i think); therefore, there is still much speculation and experimentation among us 'common' people. 
Cornelius |
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| Cornelius Newbie Joined: 26/12/2008 Location: NorwayPosts: 27 |
Maybe you're just seeing the infrared light (heat) where part of it are visible to most digital cameras. I use a camera to check if remotecontrols works, since one can see the ir-diode blink through the camera. |
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| steven Newbie Joined: 24/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 25 |
ive tried that the cam can see infrared from a tv remote but it sees it as red like the red laser which higlights as red when shot through the hho cell this i can see with the naked eye to the laser that is, except infrared but the white energy band inside the center of the laser i can only see with the hd handy cam and is as mystierious as can be to. stc |
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| Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
OK, it burns the fuel more efficiently. Thanks for pointing that out. Now I would think it should have been commercially available as an option, as turbo's or super chargers are. Brown gas has been around for a long time after all. Perhaps it has more reliability trouble in the long run, to add it at the car factory? Still, I guess it gives some of you a lot of fun tinkering time , more power to you. Klaus |
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| Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Tinker; Manufacturers would have a headache with people who would skip the regular maintenance required to keep this device operational. safety may also be an issue Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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