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Forum Index : Electronics : Perfect Toroidal for the OZ Inverter ??
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fillm Guru  Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Yea , my mistake ... They are on clockmans list 8 x IN4007 1A 1000V. I will fix that when I copy the list again. Still a ? about the Ceramic Caps. I think the big selection of diodes might be Garys best buy to cover everything ? PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
As I ordered everything I put it in a spreadsheet including the totals as ordered. Mostly from Aliexprees, 100 diodes from them posted is about the same price as 5 elsewhere. Took me quite a while to get through finding all those parts and some on Clockmans list seem to be stuff that is available in Europe but not common elsewhere. I know my list is not 100% but it may help someone. I have just about all my parts now except the EG8010 and big choke core. I am working a redesign of my board to use a 50 X 20 X 300 mm Aluminium bar to go between the FETs on the bottom side of the board, the board will then be bolted to the big Aero Sharp heat sink with thermal paste between. Also changing to IRFP4110PbF FETs which have near double the current rating. Also fillm if you are using the original heat sink configuration the same as the Powerstar Inverter you may not need the thermal insulation pads for the fets as the heatsinks act as conductors. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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Clockmanfr Guru Joined: 23/10/2015 Location: FrancePosts: 429 |
Hi Fillm, There are many different types of capacitor all with slightly different operating characteristics. Originally 'oztules' used Cans for the 10uf and 4.7uf on the OzControl Board, however, after some experimenting he found that Monolithic types (non polarised) could be used on the board, EXCEPT on the driver chips, those must be cans, as my Photo. So the.... " Monolithic Ceramic Chip Capacitor 475 4.7UF 50V 20% 5.08mm Pitch, (2 off). …. Monolithic Ceramic Chip Capacitor 10UF 50V" .... are important. Here is a Chinese link.... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100pcs-Monolithic-Ceramic-Chip-Capacitor-475-4-7UF-50V-20-5-08mm-Pitch-/221465112357?hash=item 3390596f25 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100pcs-Monolithic-Ceramic-Chip-Capacitor-106-10UF-50V-20-5-08mm-Pitch-/321432521284?hash=item4 ad6df0a44 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100pcs-Monolithic-Ceramic-Chip-Capacitor-106-10UF-50V-20-5-08mm-Pitch-/321432521284?hash=item4 ad6df0a44 Everything is possible, just give me time. 3 HughP's 3.7m Wind T's (14 years). 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (10 yrs). 21kW PV AC coupled SH GTI's. OzInverter created Grid. 1300ah 48v. |
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| Clockmanfr Guru Joined: 23/10/2015 Location: FrancePosts: 429 |
The .... DIODES fast/RAPIDES FR107 - 1A, (2 off)...... are also important on the driver chips. Everything is possible, just give me time. 3 HughP's 3.7m Wind T's (14 years). 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (10 yrs). 21kW PV AC coupled SH GTI's. OzInverter created Grid. 1300ah 48v. |
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| Clockmanfr Guru Joined: 23/10/2015 Location: FrancePosts: 429 |
Regards Components supply. I now find that I have to log in and out of 4 Eflee bay sites, with my same sign in code, UK, France, Aus, US. to find what I am after. Most folk in China say will post Worldwide. It used to be that searching Worldwide for stuff was Worldwide, nowadays the latest search software of site/country you are in, now takes precedence, and sends you to its prioritized local suppliers and if they don't have it, then fleebay says, "search not found". This New Fleebay is a Pain. Everything is possible, just give me time. 3 HughP's 3.7m Wind T's (14 years). 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (10 yrs). 21kW PV AC coupled SH GTI's. OzInverter created Grid. 1300ah 48v. |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Just trying to get everything needed in one place , This reply keeps changing because of new post loaded while I am redoing it . Thanks Leslie for the update on the caps and I have made the changes to this list. Thanks also Gary I did use your list as well. I took the bulk assorted pac out as it might be confusing later but this is a link to Mad's List It getting down to splitting hairs now, the list dated 7-14 has 6 x 10uF Electrolytic Capacitor, (can), 63V (max) 105 the earlier is 4. Will get 6 . If thats all that can be wrong then its nothing. Any mistakes, please post it . This afternoons effort , I stripped out one of the Aerosharp inverters, they liked to use a bit of glue but if you take your time and I used a bit of heat it all came apart OK . Don't really think the heat did as much as a hammer and a 330mm length of decking hardwood. 
I suppose now I have to unwind the toroidial, and have a look back at Mad's toroidal build as I would like to try and get it this up to its Max. I would also to use that nice heatsink as would seem a waste not to... PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
I found the easiest way to get the torroid out was to strip everything else above it out, undo the nut on the torriod, tip upside down, lift the torroid end about 250mm and drop it, 2-3 try's and it either separated from the resin or the whole lot came out. Having stripped out quite a few I am now trying to put a couple back together, if you could take some photo's of what wires connect where to the PC it would be greatly appreciated. I found a 450 mm long length of 25mm poly pipe with a 50 mm deep v cut in each end worked really well for unwinding the copper. When I finished 1 wire I just put a cable tie around one side then popped the pipe out ready to do the next. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Hi Mad, I am going back over a couple of builds with how you, Tinker & Glenn went about it all. What pictures would you specifically want. You can contact me through my website www.ozwindengineering.com About. I have just listed links here to the 3 builds as its easy for me & others to then just click on rather than having to copy the link or go searching. Glenns Inverter Build Tinkers Inverter Build Mad's Toroidal PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| Clockmanfr Guru Joined: 23/10/2015 Location: FrancePosts: 429 |
Hi Fillm, I have just re-printed my PCB Supplement, with some new photos of the OzControl Board with the Pin 6 Start/Stop to now match the PCB's. These pics might help on final assembly. This now brings all the PCB's up to date. 
I do have another OzControl Board 10a that is designed and ready for production, but this is just 6mm longer and redesigned around the 220vac to 12vac 3w Isolation Transformer, for ease of fitting. So for now on the present OzControl board, just raise the Isolation Transformer on 3 or 4mm spacers. Everything is possible, just give me time. 3 HughP's 3.7m Wind T's (14 years). 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (10 yrs). 21kW PV AC coupled SH GTI's. OzInverter created Grid. 1300ah 48v. |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Making some progress with the revamped toroidal and this is a pic unwinding the 2nd outer layer. Mdns gave me the tip on the 25mm poly pipe I made the first one to long @ 850 and settled for 650 with a good 30mm notch. My tips for wha t they are worth seeing I am coming in on the tail end . 1/ Put masking tape around it to keep it a bit under control. 2/ Take a bit of time st the start to work out what direction to unwind , go opposite to the toroidal winder so from the end back to the start. 3/ On the second time I used a piece of 12~15mm flexi conduit to slip around a few turns before unwinding on to the poly shuttle unwindy thing each time, acting as a follower would on a crane winch. It picks up where the winder sometimes gets the lay wrong . and one wire has jumped under itself. If its a bad one and caught under 2 take time. 4/ Find a way to secure the toroidal when unwinding. Probably goes without saying. 
I should also give credit to Oztules and all the effort he has and does put in with these builds and his Original Thread Link Here as Its a valuable source of info to read and read it constantly for reference. PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Good to see you are having fun Phill, I also used a shorter piece of poly to wind off the Mylar. I found an old mig wire spool was really useful to wind the Mylar onto. Used a piece of tube that fitted nicely in the centre clamped that in the vice slipped the spool on and a rod in the offset hole acted as crank to wind off the mylar. When I was unwinding I used a portable bench that had 2 parts that you can wind apart and leave a gap, the torroid sat in the gap of about 150 mm and behaved itself. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
I would say it doesn't know anything, the off grid inverter with the EG8010 is the grid, the grid tie inverter follows its lead. So the GTI matches its Hertz and increases the line voltage a few volts above the OGI, is that an abbreviation or did i just make that up? so that when the mosfets are open electricity is flowing back into the DC side because of its lower potential and work is being done at the battery bank. the voltage at the battery and the output of the GTI will rise together until the GTI is switched off. I am saying this with the provision that I only understand about a tenth of what guys like Oztules and Warpspeed post, despite running to my "big book of transfomers for beginners" most days. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
I must let it be known, Warpspeed knows what he is talking about.... I blow things up and find out later what went wrong 
"please can someone clarify how the back charging works using the eg8010 chip. my questions are 1. what provides the boost synchronous rectification signal 2. how does the eg8010 knows there is grid voltage present. " Ok, as best as I can guess. 1. the synchronous signal is in fact the spwm signal... 2. it does not know there is a grid tie driving into it, as per Yahoo above. Why does it work.... even though the transformer voltage is not enough to get say 28v up to 60v? Well I think what happens is that the spwm works as per normal, but the fets turning on and off actually act as a on/off short across the transformer coils, which behaves like a boost inductor being shorted... same thing, so the voltage can rise to very high if it has not got a load on it. But as the battery fills, it relies on less current, so the ac side voltage increases until the grid tie gives up from HV error... thats turns off the grid tie... then after 2-3 mins it will try again. So it is effectively a boost converter in this reverse scenario. Happy to be corrected here. ............oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| tunde Newbie  Joined: 05/06/2016 Location: NigeriaPosts: 7 |
thanks again, Oztules, Yahoo2 and others. really i understand the concept of synchronous boost charging and infact i had implemented it once on one of my PIC spwm inverter build experiment. and it worked. but the concept i used is different to these. 1. i turned off the upper mosfet switches of the bridge. 2. drive the lower mosfets switch with the same pwm polarity(phase) and frequency. at least that's how i understand it but i m just surprised that its back charging while its still suppose to run as an inverter. according to my scheme i sense the mains voltage, then switch the load to it and after some seconds now switch back the secondary side (HV of the Xformer) back to the mains then now redirect my pwm pulses to the gate as i described earlier above. but i dont think the ozcontrol board does this, please correct me if i wrong. i asked this because i am about starting my own build which God's willing will love all of your input to it. and i plan to implement the synch boost charging as i am still going to run it as a back up supply when mains is not available from the grid (offline mode) so will be relying to charge my battery when mains is available from the grid is available or from my gasoline generator. thanks. tunde |
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| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
No It does not do that.. At all times it functions only as an inverter, it does not sense the "mains" Mains in this case is actually not mains at all. The ac grid here IS the inverter... so the only way for this to work as a charger is to introduce a higher AC into the output that is synched to the output.... the inverter does not sync to anything, the grid tie syncs to it... the inver does not even know it is being back fed. A grid tie does this very nicely and cheaply... and it does the synching, not the inverter chips.... direct mains connection will blow it all to hell and back. To use with generator or the mains, rather than panels, you need only simply rectify the mains or generator, (use a AC capacitor as a ballast system), and introduce that DC voltage into the grid tie, and it will do the rest. The cap will limit the current for the grid tie allowing the grid inverter to utilise it's mppt as it expects, and all will run perfectly well. At this time, you cannot introduce mains AC or Genny AC into the output of the inverter without pyrotechnics aplenty. Using a grid tie to the inverter both charges the batteries, and takes the load off the inverter during the day, with a very efficient charging system, and mppt as well as HV transmission.... handy some times. ...........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
A Question - Instead of stacking the toroidal cores can the one control board switch 3 power boards to operate 3 smaller Identical Toroids as shown in the simple block diag below. If not then why or is it just plain stupid ? 
PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
No.... simply parallel or series the three primaries, and do what you need with the secondaries ( series or parallel... depending on voltage of the transformers). ie if you have three transformers 10v:240v, then series the primaries, and parallel the secondaries etc etc. ( for 48v). You pay for it in copper losses compared to stacking and rewinding. In the case of three, then you loose a complete winding in the case of stack and rewind.. ie you loose 4 "sides" of copper when stacked compared to loose. ............oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| tunde Newbie Joined: 05/06/2016 Location: NigeriaPosts: 7 |
Hmn! So that means the mains/grid i have will actually be the power provided by my inverter and the gti? Then here instead of passing the main (mains/ grid ) to the house i route it through a rectifier as you have said and into the gti PV inputs. then the ozinverter does the magic boost charging? guess thats correct? thanks tunde. |
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| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
Yes, the inverter IS the grid at all times. "Then here instead of passing the main (mains/ grid ) to the house i route it through a rectifier as you have said and into the gti PV inputs. then the ozinverter does the magic boost charging? guess thats correct? " Yes, but you will need a capacitor or large choke to control the input current to the GTI, or you may damage the GTI in the first few seconds of the mppt cycle starting up. A few hundred uf of caps will get you started with about 800-1000w@240vac 50hz. If you have a big gti, then more caps. The capacitive reactance will keep the current under control and stop GTI runaway. or just use a charger.... ............oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Phillm RE separate Torroids I think everyone has asked that question as it involves a sh*t LOAD less work. Most of the builds here are :) Luck favours the well prepared |
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