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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Maximite Power up problem

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Grogster

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Posted: 01:26pm 31 Jan 2013
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@ TZA - Yes, that is a VERY good point. Pretty much one of the reasons I chose the MM.

I DID look at the RaspberryPi, and is is VERY clever, and technically superior to the MM, but then, look at the chip at the heart of the RP!

In my case, I wanted:

1) Some form of colour output - TV or VGA, but VGA preferred as it is sharper then composite
2) Some form of sound output - MP3 playback optional, but not a requirement
3) SD card filesystem
4) Keyboard

The MM and CMM cover these aspects well, especially the CMM(if I could just get my hands on one! ), was about the same price as the RP, and was SIMPLER!

To me, the simplicity of the MM is a big deal.
Although the RP can playback video and MP3's etc, and has a full point-and-click GUI, it is overkill for simpler tasks. MHO only...

MM can easily control an external MP3 player module if I needed that, but I don't really. Colour output was something I WAS wanting, but did not want a huge amount of colours, so the MM's 8 is perfect - allows me to put some colour in the displays to make them attractive(over B/W), and is easy to code thanks to MMBASIC.

I did look at the 4D Systems uVGA, and in fact did buy one to tinker with, but that module alone is $50, and I did not have much luck getting it to work with a PICAXE - commands just seemed to be ignored. Tried several attempts, but no joy.
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
MOBI
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Posted: 01:52pm 31 Jan 2013
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There certainly is a lot to be said for the "Kiss" principle.

And anyway, for us "oldies" the MM sure is a nostalgia trip.

When I mount mine in a box, I think I will fit a little processor fan to be sure to be sure. It shouldn't over heat, but why take the chance?
David M.
 
CircuitGizmos

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Posted: 02:31pm 31 Jan 2013
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  Grogster said  
The MM and CMM cover these aspects well, especially the CMM(if I could just get my hands on one!


I just talked to the factory and they are out of them. The schedule looks like it might be June or later before yours will be available.
Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite
 
CircuitGizmos

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Posted: 02:33pm 31 Jan 2013
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  CircuitGizmos said  
  Grogster said  
The MM and CMM cover these aspects well, especially the CMM(if I could just get my hands on one!


I just talked to the factory and they are out of them. The schedule looks like it might be June or later before yours will be available.


And I am TOTALLY kidding you, Grogster. I personally packed your package for you (and dropped in a firmware button) and shipped it off today.

Generally I don't pack anything as the company that does so is many miles from me. But I had a new CGCOLORMAX1 and the other parts you ordered and I wanted to make sure that there wasn't even as much as a day's delay in starting the shipping process. Plus I wanted to slip in the panel-mount firmware load switch without screwing up the paperwork. So I shipped this from my office.

It is on the way to you. I hope that it gets there quick!Edited by CircuitGizmos 2013-02-02
Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite
 
Grogster

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Posted: 02:36pm 31 Jan 2013
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I did all my programming on and Atari 800XL, when it was Atari vs Commodore in the 80's, so I am not exactly a teenager myself either!

I love the MM for it's simplicity, but even though it is simple hardware wise, when paired up with Geoff's MMBASIC, it becomes something much different.

On the fan, yes I agree with that - heat kills electronics faster then just about anything else.
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
Grogster

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Posted: 02:45pm 31 Jan 2013
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  CircuitGizmos said  
  Quote  I just talked to the factory and they are out of them. The schedule looks like it might be June or later before yours will be available.


And I am TOTALLY kidding you, Grogster. I personally packed your package for you (and dropped in a firmware button) and shipped it off today.


Oh you!!!!!

Don't bait me, boy!


Thanks very much - I look forward to getting it.
I sent another email to Altronics today - 7 days since they said they would send it off Express Courier.

So, either they are sending to the wrong place(I asked them to confirm shipping address, but no response yet), or they are just lying to me. As mentioned before, if I order anything from Element14, and get Express Courier, which I normally do, it is here in two days. Sometimes, I even get it the NEXT DAY, which is impressive, considering that it has to hop across the ocean...
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
CircuitGizmos

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Posted: 02:49pm 31 Jan 2013
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I have your address as:

Grogster
666 Blackhole Lane
Outer Elbonia

I'm sure it will be OK. I'm close to a black hole myself and I've never had any trou








Edited by CircuitGizmos 2013-02-02
Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite
 
Geoffg

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Posted: 03:03pm 31 Jan 2013
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  MOBI said  When I mount mine in a box, I think I will fit a little processor fan to be sure to be sure. It shouldn't over heat, but why take the chance?

No, no - this is silly. This panic over heat was started by a troll who just wanted to sell heatsinks and fans.

The whole Maximite (colour or monochrome) generates about 1.5 watts of heat when powered from 9V. This is negligible, the thing does not even get warm. A personal computer will generate 200 watts or more and that is why they need a fan - you cannot compare the two. As another example, your typical smartphone will generate about a watt of heat when you are talking on it, does it need a fan?

To illustrate how silly this is, a typical fan will draw about the same current as the whole Maximite, so by adding the fan you are doubling the amount of heat generated (which is still negligible).

Geoff
Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net
 
Grogster

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Posted: 03:11pm 31 Jan 2013
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  CircuitGizmos said   I have your address as:

Grogster
666 Blackhole Lane
Outer Elbonia

I'm sure it will be OK. I'm close to a black hole myself and I've never had any trou



Ha............Ha..........

Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
Grogster

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Posted: 03:13pm 31 Jan 2013
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  Geoffg said  
  MOBI said  When I mount mine in a box, I think I will fit a little processor fan to be sure to be sure. It shouldn't over heat, but why take the chance?

No, no - this is silly. This panic over heat was started by a troll who just wanted to sell heatsinks and fans.

The whole Maximite (colour or monochrome) generates about 1.5 watts of heat when powered from 9V. This is negligible, the thing does not even get warm. A personal computer will generate 200 watts or more and that is why they need a fan - you cannot compare the two. As another example, your typical smartphone will generate about a watt of heat when you are talking on it, does it need a fan?

To illustrate how silly this is, a typical fan will draw about the same current as the whole Maximite, so by adding the fan you are doubling the amount of heat generated (which is still negligible).

Geoff


So noted. I thought that the CMM got hotter being a bigger chip, but I guess this was false logic - just because it is bigger and has more pins, does not mean that it uses more juice...

Not actually having got my hands on a CMM yet , I did not know that it did not get any hotter the the B/W one. Fan not needed - agreed.
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
Yankee
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Joined: 28/01/2013
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Posted: 03:27pm 31 Jan 2013
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  Grogster said   I did all my programming on and Atari 800XL, when it was Atari vs Commodore in the 80's, so I am not exactly a teenager myself either!


Atari 800XL vet here as well.. And then onto the 130XE after it finally died. Probably what attracted me to the MM after stumbling onto it recently. Great group of people on these forums too, I see. Lots of fun projects in mind already for it. Finishing up the soldering on the ubw32-mcc-pcb now. Having a ball with it so far.

Anyway, back to work on a new liquid nitrogen cooler kit for the PIC32.. ;)
 
MOBI
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Posted: 03:41pm 31 Jan 2013
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Ok, Point taken - I realise that the fan isn't necessary, it is just that I have a few and really no use for them. I just thought....?

I intend eventually to mount a downsized MM version in my solar/wind management system. The shed gets very hot in the summer months and some of the modules (power supplies etc) will get hot in the same box, so I'll probably need a fan in that case.

In the mean time...not
David M.
 
Grogster

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Posted: 03:53pm 31 Jan 2013
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  Yankee said  
  Grogster said   I did all my programming on and Atari 800XL, when it was Atari vs Commodore in the 80's, so I am not exactly a teenager myself either!


Atari 800XL vet here as well.. And then onto the 130XE after it finally died. Probably what attracted me to the MM after stumbling onto it recently. Great group of people on these forums too, I see. Lots of fun projects in mind already for it. Finishing up the soldering on the ubw32-mcc-pcb now. Having a ball with it so far.

Anyway, back to work on a new liquid nitrogen cooler kit for the PIC32.. ;)


Welcome to the forums.

I never played with the 130XE, but a friend of mine at the time had one, so I got to use one. I even replaced all the RAM chips in my 800XL when it died - One of my first electronic repairs. I seem to recall there was a bank of about 8 RAM chips in DIL sockets. I loved the Atari and still have a soft spot for it, to which other members here will attest to. I never got to interfacing things with it though, as I THINK you needed a special interface that plugged into either the SIO port or the expansion port, to give you relays and IO lines to play with. And as I never had one of those...
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
Grogster

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Posted: 03:56pm 31 Jan 2013
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  MOBI said   Ok, Point taken - I realise that the fan isn't necessary, it is just that I have a few and really no use for them. I just thought....?

I intend eventually to mount a downsized MM version in my solar/wind management system. The shed gets very hot in the summer months and some of the modules (power supplies etc) will get hot in the same box, so I'll probably need a fan in that case.

In the mean time...not


There is no LAW that says you don't have to, but generally speaking, if it not needed, then don't use it. I just thought the new CMM with it's 100-pin chip got a bit hotter, but I obviously got that totally wrong.

On the hotter shed, I still think you would be OK.

If the MM generates about 1.5W of heat, that is above ambient, so as long as the temperature in the shed is not going to get hot enough(with the MM running) to threaten the chip, I'd say you'd still be OK running no heatsink. I'd have to check the PIC32 datasheet for the maximum allowable temperature you can run the chip at, but I would got out on a line and say that you'd be fine running the device even in ambient temperatures of 50'C or so.
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
xraydude
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Joined: 12/01/2013
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Posted: 04:19pm 31 Jan 2013
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  Grogster said  
  CircuitGizmos said  
  Quote  I just talked to the factory and they are out of them. The schedule looks like it might be June or later before yours will be available.


And I am TOTALLY kidding you, Grogster. I personally packed your package for you (and dropped in a firmware button) and shipped it off today.


Oh you!!!!!

Don't bait me, boy!


...


He got me too. Expecting my CGCOLORMAX1, CGMMSTICK1, CGKEYCHIP1 and connectors to ship any day. When I read that post, I was about to start crying...

CircuitGizmos, you are evil...
Ted Forrest
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MOBI
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Posted: 04:22pm 31 Jan 2013
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  grogster said  There is no LAW that says you don't have to, but generally speaking, if it not needed, then don't use it. I just thought the new CMM with it's 100-pin chip got a bit hotter, but I obviously got that totally wrong.


It wasn't the PIC I'm so much concerned about, its more about 7805/12s etc running off 24vdc in an already hot environment. I've been thinking about fitting a fan to the existing control box but am missing that elusive tuit. I leave the box open in the hot weather, but then I can't easily see the 7seg LED displays.
David M.
 
Grogster

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Posted: 04:32pm 31 Jan 2013
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Now, that changes things a bit.

Yes, with 24v supply, you might find the reg will get a bit hot, so a bit of airflow is probably a good idea.

Are you planning on a pre-regulator?

IE: 24v feeding a 7812, and the 7812 feeding a 7805 for the rest of your ciruit.
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
TassyJim

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Posted: 04:33pm 31 Jan 2013
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  MOBI said  
It wasn't the PIC I'm so much concerned about, its more about 7805/12s etc running off 24vdc in an already hot environment. I've been thinking about fitting a fan to the existing control box but am missing that elusive tuit. I leave the box open in the hot weather, but then I can't easily see the 7seg LED displays.


Running off 24V will produce a bit of excess heat.
The usual options are a series dropping resistor to share some of the load or an intermediate regulator to do the same.
I use an 8V regulator coming off 13.5V and I use the 8V for a few of the external parts as well as feeding the Maximite.
Both options do not reduce the heat, they just allow you to spread it around a bit more.

When power usage is of concern, I will go with a 5V switching regulator.

My main data acquisition Maximite sits in a cabinet which gets to 35+ degrees C at times.
That's hot for Tasmania.

Jim

VK7JH
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MOBI
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Posted: 04:52pm 31 Jan 2013
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  Quote  My main data acquisition Maximite sits in a cabinet which gets to 35+ degrees C at times.
That's hot for Tasmania.


I'm in the South East of South Oz and my power room in the summer often gets well over 40 and sometimes around 50. I have a spare roof top Whirly Gig - perhaps I should start with installing it on the power room roof first.

Heading off for ANOTHER trip to town to see if my ebay purchases have arrived. Sometimes they seem to take weeks and other times, a few days. A bit like Grogster's MM, I'm starting to get impatient.
David M.
 
robert.rozee
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Posted: 05:06pm 31 Jan 2013
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  TassyJim said  
Running off 24V will produce a bit of excess heat.
The usual options are a series dropping resistor to share some of the load or an intermediate regulator to do the same. I use an 8V regulator coming off 13.5V and I use the 8V for a few of the external parts as well as feeding the Maximite. Both options do not reduce the heat, they just allow you to spread it around a bit more.
Jim


rather than a resistor, a far better option would be a large zener diode in series. a 12 volt zener rated at 5 watts would likely suffice, and will then have a constant voltage drop irrespective of any changing current draw.

an even better plan would be to replace the 7805 with a buck-regulator. small assembled boards based on the LM2596 can be had for just a couple of dollars on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251066005460
these will produce minimal heat and can handle inputs up to around 35 volts.

 
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