Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
piggweed Newbie Joined: 09/01/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 29
Posted: 02:37pm 13 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
97fishmt, it is almost identical to Q2AA18200H, I'm not sure if there is any difference at all.
piggweed Newbie Joined: 09/01/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 29
Posted: 03:09pm 13 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Warpspeed, have you ever welded aluminum before, if not you need to make sure your tig has high feq. Depending on the thickness you may need to preheat. You tig weld aluminum with ac continuous high feq with fairly high current. If I need to weld aluminum then I take it where I used to work. Everthing else I tig with my arc welder with reverse dc using tig torch.
piggweed Newbie Joined: 09/01/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 29
Posted: 06:27pm 13 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Well I shorted two leads together and with back gear ingauged my Boxford vsl would slip so I spent all morning shortning the linkbelt, what a pain. With two leads shorted ( L1 & L2 ) and clamp on amp on L1 @ 200 rpms I get 10 amps, at 250 rpm I get 14 amps. I printed out Don B's testing post and will test further. Is that what you meant shorting the leads to get amp reading?
piggweed Newbie Joined: 09/01/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 29
Posted: 07:02pm 13 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Here the amp reading at 550 rpm, not sure if I am testing right, and the way I am testing amps. What say ye.
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 07:08pm 13 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
I will buy a proper TIG inverter welder and set it up exclusively for aluminium when the time comes.
I believe these usually have adjustable frequency, ac balance controls, plus HF start, and some even pulse.
Never TIG welded before, but I have been researching it.
Still having fun practicing with my new dc MIG on steel.
It sure beats stick and oxy acetylene welding which I also have here.Cheers, Tony.
piggweed Newbie Joined: 09/01/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 29
Posted: 07:33pm 13 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
On aluminum you will use continuous HF, you don't need to leave it setup for aluminum, you just flip the HF on continuous and turn it on ac. HF will have off, start and continuous. If welding s.s. or steel it will be set on dc reverse and HF start. On steels the HF helps start the arc. Tig is the easiest to weld with, on steels, the trick is holding your hand steady or bracing you hand. Aluminum is a little trickier. To learn start with some pcs of steel until you get used to holding the torch and using filler rod. You will need a good thick pair of gloves, tig's put out a lot of heat and you may want to get some leathers. never tig weld with a white shirt, it will refect up and burn you neck. You will love it.
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 07:52pm 13 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Hehehe, drifting way off topic here Piggweed.
But then this is your thread.
I joined a really great welding Forum, highly recommended.
Some really experienced welding professionals over there.
http://weldingweb.com/
Back Shed is more the place to discuss renewable and alternative energy DIY projects.Cheers, Tony.
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 08:54pm 13 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Welding may be a drift off topic , But if you go and check out some of my other posts you'll see we try to stress safety to the new comers weather it is welding or working with battery's we all need to be aware of the dangers!!
If also you search the archives you'll find where towers and yaw boxes and other things have had problems due to weld .
So It looks to me that Piggweed's knowledge and experience with welding will be greatly appreciated as well as 97fishmt's knowledge of servo motors! ''
Maybe we should see if the owner of the forum will set up a page for servo motors and a page for RE welding.??
I've seen welding discussed in depth on some of the other RE forums.
Piggweed we will be waiting to see some pictures of your mill and tower up and running. ''
IsaiahURL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
piggweed Newbie Joined: 09/01/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 29
Posted: 10:54pm 13 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Sorry for getting of the subject. I made some pvc blades and have them mounted. They are 47" long, about 80" in dia.
Don B Senior Member Joined: 27/09/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 190
Posted: 02:26am 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Hi Pigweed,
Having now looked at the Baldor 300V 2kW and the 200V 2kW Q2AA18200H data, I have revised my opinion of the suitability of these servos for duty as a wind generator alternator. I was very pleasantly surprised at the low winding resistance values, and I imagine that your servo windings will be a similar low value.
The 200V unit quotes what appears to be a volts per rpm figure of 0.0259, while the 300V unit quotes 0.084. The second figure is an rms rather than a peak value, but it is not clear what the first figure is. Peak values will be 1.4 times the rms values.
Assuming that your servo is similar to the 200V unit, you would need to spin it at around 1,000 rpm to get 25V out. Needing this order of rpm to output 25V from a 200V input 2,000 rpm servo does not seem to make sense, but, hopefully, your open circuit voltage readings will give you a more accurate indication of volts per rpm.
The simplest way to check the suitability of your servo for battery charging is to again set it up in your lathe complete with rectifiers and battery, and see what rpm you need to obtain a reasonable charge rate. If you do need a speed above about 500 rpm for this, then you may need to consider a step up belt drive as this will probably be a bit fast for your turbine.
As you have already constructed your turbine, the only thing left now is to try it. There is no doubt that it will do something, but my earlier comments re proper turbine selection and design will always apply if you want to squeeze the last Watt out of the prevailing wind.
Finally, don't expose your turbine to the wind until you have a reliable and preferably automatic way of furling it or somehow stopping it in extreme wind conditions. Remember always that the power in the wind increases with the cube of the wind speed, and the wind force increases with the square of the wind speed. The margin berween pleasing output in fresh winds and catastrophic failure is really not very large.
Please continue to post your results.
RegardsDon B
97fishmt Regular Member Joined: 19/04/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 77
Posted: 03:43am 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
DonB
You're out in left field.
Us yanks know how these motors work.
I've had motors like this up in the wind
producing power for over 10 years.
I'm sharing, and have before on this site,
just check it out, or me out.
Bub73 Senior Member Joined: 10/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 116
Posted: 05:48am 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
piggweed & DonB
Here are some pictures of one of my servo's on our test stand; using 80 inch Windy Nation wind grabbers and a pair of hard used mobility battery's paralleled for a 12 volt load, wind this day was gust to 20 mph its a 9 amp 165 volt servo.
I was pleased with the output and the way it followed the wind and I tried to capture the amp meter with my then new camera during some gust.
Maybe this will help ease some doubts as piggweed has a much better motor than this. I'm sure it will work once its up and flying and with piggweeds welding skills should stay up a long time.
Bob
The Wind Grabbers 80" swept area.
Edited by Bub73 2012-01-15
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 06:10am 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
I am truly amazed by these servo motors.
I have not seen anything like this before, it is all totally new technology to me.
So please pardon my total ignorance.
While Australia is hardly a third world country, there are a great many things that we do not manufacture here and that NEVER turn up surplus.
There is a lot of stuff floating around on e-bay that Americans take completely for granted, that is simply not available here.
Ultracapacitors and these servo motors seem to be more or less readily available in the US, but in oZ it is all real eye opening stuff, that we can only buy from overseas, nothing like that is available here...
Cheers, Tony.
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 06:31am 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
I had sold many F & P motors to people in the USA in the past as they where not available there.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Don B Senior Member Joined: 27/09/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 190
Posted: 08:32am 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Hi again Piggweed,
Having had a quick scan across the internet, I realise that what we are talking about is in fact a (relatively high power) stepper motor, rather than a servo. I confess that these are devices that I have no hands on experience with.
I am still trying to get my head around the capabilities of a stepper motor as a wind generator alternator, although the one that you are experimenting with seems to have more promise than I gave it credit for. It also seems that others have had good experiences with them, although you would need to be sure that you had an apples for apples comparison to be absolutely confident of its usefulness for your application.
So I renew my suggestion to continue with your project and post your results so that we all finish up learning something.
Regards
Don B
yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166
Posted: 10:33am 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
servo motors and a lot of other stuff is available but its tough to buy. They are not listed in auction notes, you basically turn up at a minutes notice and outbid the scrap metal blokes....and be prepared to buy a pallet or more of them. They don't make it easy. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not...
isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 04:09pm 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
piggweed
The blades you made look nice.
What size pipe did you use? I would like to try a 8 inch one someday.
I have cut several sets out of 10'' pvc and when I lay out the trailing edge.
I dont make it parallel with the pipe I drop what will be the tip a inch or sow.
When done if you look down the end of the blade it will resemble looking down a rifle barrel.
The way I started this was the neighbour bought a set of commercial blades and I took one and traced it on the pipe and made my own adjustments.
If using pvc pipe watch the balance, the wall thickness varies quite a bit.
What I did to balance some is I have a old balance baby scale and I weigh all the blades and find the lightest one then tune the others to match.may not be the best but they have worked we had one set up over a year in some 60 mph winds.
The pipe I use is from the salvage yard and is thin wall about 1/8 thick .I over lay where the holes go with another piece of pvc that make that point stronger.
hope this helps some Ill see if Bub 73 has a picture of these blades.
I would rather have a servo than a F&p or amtec tread mill motor.
IsaiahEdited by isaiah 2012-01-16URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
piggweed Newbie Joined: 09/01/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 29
Posted: 04:51pm 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
I appreciate the safety concern, as it should be. My background: 30yrs industrial electrian, 20yrs maint. supervisor, 4yrs mill wright. The last 15yrs upgrading equipment designing and building automated machinery. I over saw the maintenance departments at a plant in Texas and Indiana. I wrote hundreds of PLC's programs on closed loop systems. When it comes to wind turbines, using a motor to generate power, is a diffent animal. It looks to me that its current and voltage are different when using a motor to generating power. I am vary familiar ohms law, but not with using a motor or servo backwards to produce power. I appreciate everbodys input on my first wind project and will keep you updated during each step of it and look forward hearing your input. Thank you.
piggweed Newbie Joined: 09/01/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 29
Posted: 05:22pm 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
isaiah, I whipped out these just for testing, wasn't sure if they would work. They are mad out of 4" sch 40 pvc pipe I had in the barn, each blade weighs 451.3 grams. I thought they might be to flemzy, but seem to be working. At the hub they are 3 /34" and at the tip 2", and the hub is made out of delrin (already had the delrin). I have no idea what they will do in high winds. I am sure they are not as effecient as they sould be, I have been looking at blades and how to make them. I would like wooden blades but wood working is not my strong point. I can build anything out of metal, but with wood i'm like a bull in a china shop.
Bub73 Senior Member Joined: 10/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 116
Posted: 05:38pm 14 Jan 2012
Copy link to clipboard
Print this post
Hi all;
For me there is much to be leaned about using servo motors as wind turbines.
There seems to be no easy hard and fast rules for determining their output by the tag numbers mostly they just work. The answers lay in the manufactures spec sheets like 97fishmt posted and theory such as DonB has posted in this thread.
I have two others that don't follow the rules, one a small 2000rpm sanyo that wants a much higher rpm to cut in than the numbers indicate. The other a 3000rpm getty will deflect an amp meter hooked to a 12v battery and turned by hand, just turned not spun by hand.
They both will work with some effort I'm sure; the small sanyo is doing a good job now keeping a string of reclaimed battery's topped up by going with faster blades and a buck booster as the other Bob on the forum has done with his Chinese mill. The getty I haven't dug into much yet as it is heavy and mid winter here.
You may find some servo's downunder on old welding robots and such, often they are scrapped when the encoders go bad.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
Print this post
'
'
