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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : (MM/DM/UBW32) Invaders
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VK6MRG Guru  Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
Link is new working. Thank you. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| Vikingboy Regular Member  Joined: 23/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 82 |
Hi, Yes I saw the link on the site, however this is not the latest update, as the date on the file shows this is from the 6-1, and does not include any new code. Andrew |
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djuqa Guru Joined: 23/11/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 447 |
Link is last provided Darthmite please send latest so I can post. VK4MU MicroController Units |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hey David and Darth. That link above is sending visitors to a page on Davids site, where they have to look around the page for the link to the file. The link then points them to a file back here on my server. So its sending visitors in a loop, without them knowing about it, and using my bandwidth. If a file is on my server, link to it from this forum only please, or link to this post, not the file. The whole idea of a forum is so readers can see how a project developes. If you just link to the files, anyone visiting Davids site will not know the background of Darths project, readers comments, etc. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Vikingboy Regular Member Joined: 23/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 82 |
Yes, I had noticed that loop myself, also I dont understand why Darth would post the wrong file ? Is the correct file sitting on the back shed server somewhere, apparently David he contacted you with a link to the file, are you sure you linked the right file. just trying to find the latest version of this great game. Andrew |
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darthmite Senior Member  Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: FrancePosts: 240 |
Haw , Evil DarthMite made a error 
I was sure Geoff will send the last one 
Here is the last one with button and without KB. 2012-01-12_022558_INVADERS.zip Enjoy 
Darth. Theory is when we know everything but nothing work ... Practice is when everything work but no one know why ;) |
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Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
I've downloaded this 'latest' version but still it doesn't work. I'm convinced I wasn't meant to see the program running!
Here is the screen I get when I RUN it... 
Now, I could fix it but it would be nice if we could upload *working* programs for the public to see. |
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| Vikingboy Regular Member Joined: 23/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 82 |
Nick, By the error it looks to me that you havn't installed the latest release 3.0A of mmbasic that added the 'print @' command. Andrew |
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BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
Suggestion: Those programs that require a certain level of MM or DM Basic should do a test for version number at the start of the program and advise the user if unable to proceed or at least have comments up front to indicate requirements. Any comments? Bob |
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| darthmite Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: FrancePosts: 240 |
Hi , This version is for MM Basic v3.0A. The 'syntax error' can only be the Print @(...) command who wasn't present in older version. I will always use the latest version and tell it in the reply when i post a new one. Cheers. Darth. Theory is when we know everything but nothing work ... Practice is when everything work but no one know why ;) |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
Geez! There's a new version already?! I only updated to 3.0 last week. Ok, I've updated firmware to 3.0A and run the program. No more error but I'm now back to being unable to start and play because this latest version of Invaders still uses the non-standard switches for it's control. I'm back to where I was when I started. Is there a problem with writing the program to use the keyboard. Everyone has one of these right? This experience reminds me very much of the PC world where one buys the latest game in the shop, takes it home only to find that it requires a bigger video card, or more RAM or faster CPU or is missing a system DLL or requires an internet connection to apply 100GB of updates to run. |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Geez Nick, this is free with no obligation to you from his author! Some time ago, i pointed (among others) to other Basic sources of Invaders for other platforms, in the hope that someone will consider them a good source of inspiration in writing his own MMBasic program. Now, is even better. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
Totally agree. I'm one of those looking for inspiration but as yet have not been able to obtain it from a program not designed to be run by most people who have a Maximite. Take my critisism as a way to improve the MM free software base. All I'm asking is that paid or free, newly announced software *should* at least be designed for the majority of users and work with minimal fuss. I'm sure that once this program is modified to run on a standard configured MM, it will be great and I will commend darthmite on his efforts. But at the moment, I wait. I may be an obnoxious whiner but what I'm saying can only improve the way software is presented to the wider MM community.... and that has to be a good thing, right? |
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| darthmite Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: FrancePosts: 240 |
Hi , So much discussion for a KB 
I don't use the KB for game because i get some issue that the MM don't have detect when i released a key. I asked Geoff about this , but it seems to work with his own KB. it's why i made me a 100% compatible Atari/Amiga 500 joystick. info here : Amiga joystick/mouse pinout You are true Nick , but if you look on all the sources i posted here , i never have a version with the keyboard. Every are free to modify the source (probably 5min of coding) but trust me , if you get a Amiga joy or made it yourself you will never take the KB again for play
Now a crash course for every who want the KB in this game. 'General game loop DO WHILE 1 'check if we draw a new level just add after the DO WHILE 1 KEY$ = INKEY$ if you press a key , the character will be recorded in the KEY$ variable. Now ... the cannon movements. 'check if we move the Canon to Left IF (PIN(13) = 0) THEN OldCanonX = CanonX CanonX = CanonX - 2 IF CanonX < 0 THEN CanonX = 0 ENDIF change : IF (PIN(13) = 0) THEN to : IF (PIN(13) = 0) OR (ASC(KEY$) = 130) THEN it mean , IF 'the joy is pushed to Left' OR 'the Left key from KB is pressed' THEN We do the same for the Right movement 'check if we move the Canon to Right IF (PIN(14) = 0) THEN OldCanonX = CanonX CanonX = CanonX + 2 IF CanonX > 285 THEN CanonX = 285 ENDIF change : IF (PIN(14) = 0) THEN to : IF (PIN(14) = 0) OR (ASC(KEY$) = 131) THEN And finally the Fire button ... 'check if we Fire IF (PIN(15) = 0) AND (Fire = 0) THEN GOSUB CanonFire: ENDIF change : IF (PIN(15) = 0) AND (Fire = 0) THEN to : IF ((PIN(15) = 0) OR (ASC(KEY$) = 32)) AND (Fire = 0) THEN Here we use the Space bar to Fire That it's So , it was simple , isn't it ? Now test it with your KB and tell me if you get the same issue than me. Cheers. Darth. Theory is when we know everything but nothing work ... Practice is when everything work but no one know why ;) |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
If it was so simple, why not make it easier on everyone by just making this a downloadable keyboard version since you have already done the mods? No harm in two versions... one for those few that have built a joystick for their MM and another for everyone else? I'll mod the code to get it working... and finally see the game.
(No line numbers...sheeshk!)
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Nick instead of complaining why not write the keyboard code yourself. Darth has put a lot of work into this and there was keyboard code submitted earlier in the posts. The whole idea of BASIC is its easy to understand and modify, so you have no excuse. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| djuqa Guru Joined: 23/11/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 447 |
SPOT on. Plus best way to LEARN is to try things yourself not just type or load someone else's code. VK4MU MicroController Units |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
You're missing the point of my complaint. I'm trying to emphasise that programmers need to consider the end user with anything they code. Yes, he has spent a lot of time, so just 5 minutes more, he could have added the keyboard function from the beginning and everyone would have been able to see the fruits of his efforts immediately. Those that are not savvy with BASIC (and those that detest the lack of line numbers! ) won't go to the hassle of modding the code just to play Space Invaders.
** My comments are for his benefit. ** Here's a real case example... When I first saw that Invaders was available for download, me and a friend at the time where interested to see what someone has done on the MM. We downloaded it, ran it and it didn't work. My friend is not a MM user and his comment was "It doesn't work. That's crap!". I'm sure you and most MM users and especially Darth would be offended by such comments that don't take in to consideration the hard work Darth has put in. So, 5 minutes more time develping Invaders with keyboard and the response from my friend could have been completely different. I'm going to wait till a keyboard version is made available. P.S. In the mod Darth described, he reads the keyboard into KEY$ and then tests for it each time with ASC(KEY$). Don't waste CPU time by performing an ASC conversion at each test. Convert it once into a variable K=ASC(INKEY$). |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
Bingo! I've always believed writing your own programs is the best way to learn, not just fumbling around fixing other people's code. I've never typed in or debugged anyone elses code, I wrote my own from scratch. That's how I learned to write fast tight commercial games in BASIC back in the 80's and later moved to Assembly Language. |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
OK, so I stopped my complaining and did the mod. 
Yes, I can see where Darth said the keyboard is not good. The mod, as described, makes the laser base continue moving. If you press LEFT it keeps going left until you press RIGHT and it keeps going RIGHT. I fixed this by adding KEY$="" before the INKEY$ read. Now it works as it should, only moving the base when a key is being pressed. There is a problem though. MMBasic seems to apply the key delay and repeat rate to the speed of reading with INKEY$. Is there a command to set this repeat rate and delay to a smaller value? This rate will effect all arcade type games that require a fast key response. The Joystick that Garth uses is faster in response but the keyboard could be too if this delay is removed. Next firmware update Geoff? In the TRS-80, you could do a POKE to increase the INKEY$ response time. My review of this game... Clearly, BASIC's inconsistent timing makes it hard to get smooth moving graphics for an arcade type game on the MM. But then, this is the case with many of the BASIC's not tuned specifically for games. The programmable characters of MMBASIC is what makes this game possible with aliens that look like aliens rather than lo-res monochrome blocks and simplifies the animation and movement. The lack of support for VGA makes the game take up only the top left corner of my screen but I don't have a lower res composite screen to test it on. All in all, a very good attempt of an Arcade Game on the MM in BASIC, especially considering the limitations. Darth must be commended. Keyboard control is a must if he plans to finish the game but this will depend on fixing the INKEY response time. Having it in will allow all MM users to see the fruits of Darth's efforts and not just the few hardware folks who have build the joystick control. Hopefully this will encourage more people to create for the MM and I still hold firm on my suggestion that any software written must support the minimum MM configuration if possible to allow and encourage all MM users worldwide. Nick |
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