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Forum Index : Windmills : The Mannly Smart Drive hits the 1150Watt
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fillm Guru  Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Yes it is high RPMs for a good size HAWT , usually reached only in 10m/s+ and totally unachievable for your lenz. |
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BobMann Senior Member  Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
Phil I have seen here afew of your axle flux crach and burn here on the fourm too. Please post cost of unit and build time for some thing close to 1000 watt unit. we at talking of the motor here so please keep in those lines. The world is a very big place most are not as smart as you and skilled. I can not believe you have the same last name you must of been adtoted. Bob Mann |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
YAY we now have a new name for the originator of this thread "THE BACK SHED FLIM FLAM MANN" and the byline should be powered by snake oil. Now I do wonder if Ed knows that this individual is using HIS design for commercial purposes and if he hasn't been approached then the gates would be open. Ed's website has been around for a longtime and he is a pioneer with the RE field. I do know if I came up with that VAWT design and saw this thread using my product WITHOUT my knowledge I would be letting my pigs go hungry until I caught up with the offender. FLIM FLAM the F&P has been around for a hell of a lot longer than you have been in the RE field. Hell how did the caps all start eh.... about 5 years ago or more a guy called Dennis called me and said come and look at what we're doing. so I did then went home and tried them a different way. Gordon came up for a visit and saw the extra power they were making and the rest is history. Fair enough a few graphs shown doesn't provide concrete proof, go and take some pic's of DMM's showing the voltage AND current USING THE WIND not a mechanical device. Better still get another person to check you're claims and I'm sure we could round up a member of FL to do some real world testing and report THE HONEST TRUTH. I was going to stay right out of this but as you are bashing long term forum members then I do see the gates are open. my 2.2 cents ( soon to be more with that carbon tax) |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
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| BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
For the Ed wing it is just a race car wing made to spin a round a saft it has been a round lot longer that Ed him self. There are 20 world wind turbine builders out there using it I do not see you trashing them. Ed is more then awear of what I have done with it. On all counts I have made even better. Can you say 80 MPH winds and still making power look at my vids. I all was say show me what you have build with your oun hands 99% are bench racers or dreams but dreaming are good if you go after them. Phil makes great stuff and is a class by him self as the same for bob, gizmo, I see no one testing on water towers to back feed the pumping stations and building electric car chaging station there. This makes good reading. http://southshorexpress.com/pembroke/8780-mann-made-windmill s-continue-in-pembroke.html Say what you will talk is cheap around here lately. I only see the a small % of the group doing. Phil for the chine one I see the bearing look a bit weak and they are made there so it is only a matter of time before they fail like the Ginlong. I stand behind my post and charts and real tests and my custumors that are happy. Remeber this post went this way because of a custermer used my unit in way that was deverent and small minds jumped on it. Bob Mann |
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Rastus Guru Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301 |
Hi Bob, If you can't trust your reletives to validate your results,(PillM's offer)who can you trust?No one is denying the success of your water tower mill and its survival,top marks!Cheers Rastus see Rastus graduate advise generously |
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| BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
I will post when we get some wind its been going on 10 days with out a fart even at 200 ft I have posted more real testing then any alt build that is out there guys. Show me Ginlongs testing in a VID??? now we find bearings failing WOW who would of thought. I guess Steves work is a lie too. You should really do a back round check on his work before you trash his work too guys. You got wind you got power Bob Mann |
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| electrondady1 Senior Member Joined: 12/02/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 208 |
just received this email from Ed Lenz "Hi Shawn, I have talked with Bob through emails but never gave him authorization to manufacture the Lenz blades. Unfortunately, to often, when you have something that works people want to steal it and call it their own, lacking any real idea's of their own. I did notice he rely's heavily on "help" from forum members to develop anything while breezing through some of his posts this morning. Thanks for the heads up." bob, i don't get it. you seem determined to dig yourself into a hole! |
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| BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
Electrondady1 you have gone out of your way to slander me on many forums this is were that weight of legal action will drop on you. At no time did a make a statment my statment was that I invented the tree top wind Mill and as allwas you are out of line. Here is the post from this VID He said he invented the tree top windmill, not the lenz. Bob's design is much lighter and more efficient than Ed's. He has improved on an existing design that's more versitle than Ed's. That wing has been used on race cars for a long time. His pma is alot lighter and definetly cheaper than an axial flux motor. Why reinvent the wheel when you can improve what already exists. Bob's the man... And with my changes to this wing has inproved by a good 40%. If this is from (ED) Shawn he should discloce the patten numbers and dates here on the forums. Bob Mann |
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| electrondady1 Senior Member Joined: 12/02/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 208 |
Bob's the man... |
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niall1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2008 Location: IrelandPosts: 331 |
but wait !....why not get rich quick ?....(morals need not apply) ...just sell one hundred 1k (plus) units at 2000 bucks....cant be too hard on ebay ..then take it from there .. different kind of math i know ...but it looks pretty good on paper .... 
just curious on the bearing thing Bob.....what makes you think the drum bearings are so immune to failure ....do they really last forever ? ...need adjusting .ish ?...are they tapered roller bearings ?.....replaceable ? just a failed wind hobbies,t here ...it is fun though ...
niall |
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| turnymf Regular Member  Joined: 04/10/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 84 |
Here is where Bob is quoting from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAie5QgPrWg I can't see any difference between your wing and the lenz Bob, where did you pluck 40% from? Threats of legal action now Bob, from someone making claims of 500w from a small lenz, it is yourself that is more likely to be on the pointy end of any litigation case raised |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Bob Mate you need to work with the small windmill community, not against it. As I've said before, there are members on this forum that have many many years of experience with home made wind turbines, and especially with the F&P. You need to start again, treat those more knowledgeable with the respect they deserve, and ask them for advise. Dont treat the forum as a place to sell your goods with overrated figures, we are smarter than that and therefore see it as a con. You have done nothing new other than plug a F&P directly into a MPPT grid tie. This has given you a high power rating when driven by a drill, impressive figures, but as we keep trying to tell you, not practical. Adding neo magnets to a F&P is not new, nor is using a Lenz2 on a F&P, its all been done before. Please listen to those that have done it all before, or you will find yourself alienated from the community. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Bob and all I have been following this thread for a while now and it is a shame to see it descending into a slanging match from both sides, are we loosing the sense of adventure and pioneering spirit that makes our hobby unique from other forms of energy conservation and collection? Bob has made a reliable little alternator that he is rightly proud of, and if he wrong in over promoting his product well time will judge that, but at least he is out there giving it a go. Remember that it is a new thing to him and he feels his work is ground breaking, and done at least some validation of the results. There are many factors in making a successful machine, but in fact the big issue isn't the machine at all it is the wind collection efficiency, this can be very variable and effected by even very small modifications or adjustments to the blade system. It is like tuning a racing car compared to a street sedan, same basic components but a tweak here and there can add amazing amounts of power. We all try to improve on an existing design and in most cases make it worse, but sometimes by accident rather than good judgement it improves, Bobs blades may be based on the lenz design but a fraction different here and there, the problem Bob has is he hasn't so far done a wind efficiency test, for which I wait in expectation as i am sure many others are. Bob has been a bit over the top in promoting his product prematurely, as with most generators I have tested over the years that will produce two or three times their rated output without letting out the smoke, this tells me that in reality, bobs machine is a 400 watt machine wit the extra reserve capacity. As with all but the most sophisticated WAWT machines their limitation is in the effective RPM they can operate at, small diameter high speed ones suffer more from turbulence and internal resonance that tend to destroy them more rapidly, large diameter slow speed high torque machines cause design problems for the generator because a slow generator isn't as efficient as a fast one, so it needs a transmission or special design to make it work, life wasn't meant to be easy. Why do we persist with these machines when the holy grail is lost? because we like to as it is our hobby, like some have the hobby of fishing and spent $5000 on a boat and trailer and $500 on fishing tackle to catch a $25 fish, building windmills is safer but not cheaper and about as impractical, but we enjoy it. When the wife has friends over and proudly shows them the mill spinning away out the back and tells them that it is saving money, you cringe and mumble that the solar cells on the shed that nobody noticed are making electricity too, then you slink away before the questions get to hard, go and hide in the shed making wind mill Mk iiii hoping it may perform a bit better. Have a beer sit and think about a new system that will work better and nurse the sore finger that got caught in the vice. Nothing will replace the windmill to sit and relax and watch while having a beer, whiskey or coffee, and the adrenalin fix when a storm front spins it up to terminal velocity, wires hot amp meter off the scale and heart thumping as you realize it did produce as much if not more than you saw when testing in the lathe, but for only a few minutes, reason to celebrate with a beer whiskey or coffee. Thats why we do it. For all practicability it wouldn't solve our energy requirements unless we live wit a couple of LED cluster lights a transistor radio and maybe a CB low power radio or mobile phone, third world country, in our reality it would be be flat out doing the two slices of toast in the morning and a cup of coffee, and wouldn't keep the stubby cold at all. This isn't the fault of the turbine but the fact we mostly choose to live in a low wind environmental conditions, no wind no power, low wind low power. Most wind turbines are flat out producing 5 percent of rated power over a extended term but we still love to play with them because they are safer than rock fishing. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Good post Bob The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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shawn Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2010 Location: New ZealandPosts: 210 |
Fantastic post Bob (VK4AYQ) it was a pleasure to read and just to true for comfort!! Bob you just build that turbine call it yours and fly it for a year then you will truely know what it can do and how to rate it for power!! Good luck.. But for us millheads rate it at what it makes out in the wind. |
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| Rastus Guru Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301 |
Hi Bob Mann, My comment about family was a bit tongue in cheek,a reference to the adoption comment.I had hoped it would liten the mood of the thread,sadly it wasn't taken well because the thread was taking a dive.I'm very pleased to see Glenn,Bob and Shawns posts.Forum members do tend to take a personel interest in other people along with the technical projects,so keep up the good work Bob!Cheers Rastus see Rastus graduate advise generously |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
I aggree , great post Bob and Yes there is and has been a good old slanging match going on here . You have covered it in a nut shell , I would say 99.9% of us live in wind areas where the wind turbine manufactures quote their rated start up power because mostly no one wants to live in a place that has an average wind speed above 6m/s, they continue to quote the 10~12m/s BIG figures for HAWTs and for VAWTs are doctered with 15m/s, which lures the uninformed into parting with the $. But like you and I have said , we are enthusiasts and hobbists and get pleasure from building and tuning wind generators , here is where we exchange ideas show what we have done, been doing, and get ideas or give advice . As you would know I also posted info on the 500W kits I offered for sale here a year or so ago, I feel I did it with the best intensions and showed they had problems and what mods needed to be done to make them work a bit better and coped some flack over that, as well as the Alu blades prior to that. I feel responsible for the outcome that resulted in a highly regarded member who in my opinion is one person this forum needs, leaving, and I hope one day he does decide to return . So far what I have seen BobM doing on this forum has been well and truly aired and I still feel that it steps outside of the forum bounds and seems to be more of an advertising platform than a disscussion, but this is not my decision to police. It is a major problem with the internet and places like this where some just want to steal others ideas to call it their own for profit or to call it their own with no acknowledgment, and then some have the gall to try and sell it back with unrealistic figures and claims. PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| turnymf Regular Member Joined: 04/10/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 84 |
dito "because they are safer than rock fishing." Rock fishing is only as dangerous as you allow it to be |
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