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Forum Index : Windmills : Measuring cogg
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hiya guys Well this has got to be one of the longest threads I've seen for a while, sure has generated some interrest. Sorry I havn't had a chance to contribute, but I'm real busy at the moment. But by mid next week everything will get back to normal around here and I do these cog tests. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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Highlander Senior Member  Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
G'day fellas, I need your help again. I cut & drilled all the plates and started welding. However I cant seem to get a good weld to the stator. I tried welding one to plate steel and no problem at all. I ground all surfaces, so it's got me buggered. Something to do with the laminations may be causing it. Any ideas? (I'm using a gasless mig)  Central Victorian highlands |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I wonder if its moisture between the laminations? Any moisture will play havoc with welding. You could try leaving the stator out in the sun for a day and see if that helps. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| dwyer Guru  Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
Highlander say (I'm using a gasless mig) Well l am not too sure what you mean by ? to get a good weld to the stator and between lamination so can you explain to me more so l able to figure things out and what size is your mig welder in currect 60,120,180,250.350 amp putout? and what size,grade flux core wire or just copper coat wire when you weld on steel materail have to free of comtaminate to get better finish however flux core wire welding is not the best in light work can be very messing finish but good in some heavy industrail work 
dwyer the bushman |
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Megawatt Man Senior Member Joined: 03/05/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 119 |
Bugger! I reckon it will be because F&P will have used a silicon steel, with maybe up to 3.5% silicon. That is very difficult to weld. Superglue might be an option, when they first advertised it they showed one drop holding the weight of a car. I bet everything was spotlessly clean though. Megawatt Man |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
What about drill, tap and screw the caps on. Say a 4 or 5mm thread, and use some countersunk machine screws. The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Megawatt Man Senior Member Joined: 03/05/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 119 |
Yes, but because of the laminations, I guess I'd like to see some superglue in the threads too. Hope the weekend was great. Would have liked to be there to see the blokes. Megawatt Man |
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| Highlander Senior Member Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
G'day all, thanks for the replies. I think it's because I was using a compressor blowing on it to try and keep it all cool. There may be moisture coming from there. Dwyer my welder is a 80 amp gasless only mig. It uses gasless wire .8mm When I was welding the hole filled up with weld wire but didn't bond to the stator. I tried it on plate steel and all ok.(without compressor) It bonded well to the plate as when I tried to drill the weld out it was nearly impossible to drill. I'll give it another go without the compressor, fingers crossed. 
Hey Glenn I thought about the countersunk screws, and I couldn't be buggered at the time as cutting filing drilling took 6 hrs. I'll try that if the weld won't hold. I'm bloody not gunna give up now 
Central Victorian highlands |
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| Highlander Senior Member Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
Time to try the screws. Here's the mig I'm using 
Here's the result of a failed weld 
Here's the plate off the failed weld 
I tried it a few times with no sucess. The plates are held on with super glue and I dremelled out the hole and stator really well, all surfaces were shiny but the weld won't hold on the stator. MegawattMan you said they may have used silicon steel, can this be washed away with petrol or is it impregnated into the steel itself? Central Victorian highlands |
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| Megawatt Man Senior Member Joined: 03/05/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 119 |
Sorry Highlander, it would be an alloy. Makes the iron/steel many times more useful as an electromagnetic material. Anything much above 2% silicon gets hard to weld. Megawatt Man |
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| Highlander Senior Member Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
   
What a bloody long saga this has turned into. Well I'm past the point of no return now. Screws it is. The stator laminations are wider at the top. I'm wondering how wide they are below where the coils are. If I knew this then I'll know how much room I have to play with where the screws will go in. I didn't have this in mind when I drilled the plates, so new ones may be needed. KiwiJohn you sawed up a stator can you help? Central Victorian highlands |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
hi Highlander Sorry to see this welding fail as l have done all sort of welding for many years as l am fitter and welder and do alot of maintence repair in the past and now l can see where this have gone wrong is your gasless mig welder unsuitable for this kind of work is lack of currect you need is to upgrade is buy good quautily welder maybe up to 150 amp with approx 34 volt no load and useing migshield gas can do spot welding at high power in 1 second instead of flux core is wasting your time and l hate it after seeing people buy this toy welder and l had to keep my mouth shut until they learn and find out later. Anyway l do understand is cost you money to upgrade the machine unless you know about how to welding ,welding theory and time of practice is learning however if you able to hire good mig welder but still cost $$$ again what about using gas flame welding with low melting point silver solder if this fail go and see someone in metal place who does welding work some have spotwelder, laser welding is the way go  anyway let me know l might able to help you out
dwyer the bushman |
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| KiwiJohn Guru Joined: 01/12/2005 Location: New ZealandPosts: 691 |
Highlander, I am off to work right now and a job on this evening, tomorrow maybe I will pick one of those coils apart and post a piccie or two, can you wait that long? |
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| Highlander Senior Member Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
Dywer, thanks for your help. I know it's a crappy welder but I got it because it's light and can be thrown in the ute and run off my gen to fix gates around the place.It's fine for that sort of work. I know of a metal working place in Melb, probably best to handball this job to a pro I think. KiwiJohn, I decided to hack a stator up (I have a few) It appears to be around 6mm down the centre. Thanks guys I hope this is worth the effort. Can you get post traumatic stress disorder from trying to build a windmill?  Central Victorian highlands |
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| Highlander Senior Member Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
G'day again, I just don't understand why it welds onto plate steel fine. I did this one and tried to belt it off with a hammer and drift but it won't budge at all.  Central Victorian highlands |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
hi highlander I just don't understand why it welds onto plate steel fine. I did this one and tried to belt it off with a hammer and drift but it won't budge at all. Due by lack of penetrate and lack of high welding currect and if you keep is going like this is wasting your time again forget superglue will not hold for long . Try go to Engnineer shop or Bearing,Seal, Hydraulic suppier and ask for Loctite glue they should have alist of glue specification that will suit your work  or other way is soft rivet
dwyer the bushman |
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| KiwiJohn Guru Joined: 01/12/2005 Location: New ZealandPosts: 691 |
I think I would try sweating them on with lead solder, do you have any experience of using that? You need "spirits of salts" acid flux, a flame and a really big copper soldering bolt (aka soldering iron). As far as I know lead solder, silver solder, bronze brazing etc are all surface bonds and are more likely to bond to that steel alloy. |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
hi Kiwijohn the word what you said is correct dwyer |
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| Highlander Senior Member Joined: 03/10/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
G'day guys, after I got off the forum this morning I took it to a metal fabricating place in melb. The bloke there said exactly what Dwyer said. He had a 200A mig and cranked it up. He did a few test welds. when it cooled off by the time I got home I gave them a wack with a file and they all popped off like mine. But they did hold a lot better. He did one with a tig welder and that held on fine but the whole plastic former caught fire and completely melted. The windings on there looked screwed too.
KiwiJohn, Thanks for that but no experience in that area. I'm also worried about getting it too hot, that stator core is a bloody good conductor. Dwyer I like the sound of the rivets and locktite glue That sounds easier than tap & screw. 
I've never heard of soft rivets before, how are they different to normal ones? Just softer by the sound of it! Oh well no one has done this on a f&p as far as I know so I expected to have a few hurdles Central Victorian highlands |
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Bernie the Bolt Regular Member  Joined: 26/10/2006 Location: United KingdomPosts: 45 |
Good Work Highlander ! A question from a newbie : When testing the amount of cogg as suggested - are the output wires open circuit , shorted or connected to a load ? Am I right in thinking short circuiting the outputs will brake / stop the rotor ? Bernie the Bolt I'd rather be sailing! |
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