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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Malaysia Airlines flight 370...
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Good points, well made. 
I certainly was not suggesting anything nasty in way of pilot, mearly throwing ideas around. I too am sorry if any of my posts read like that - NOT my intention. Hypoxia is a very REAL possibility - that happened to the Helios flight, almost exactly the same as you mention in your post. Basically, the plain flew on autopilot for hours till it ran out of fuel, with an unconscious cockpit crew, so it is a very real possibility that also happened to 370 in some way. We Humans take our oxygen for granted! 
According to the documentary on Helios flight, anyone at all who starts to suffer hypoxia - you have NO idea it is actually happening - the oxygen you are breathing seems exactly the same, so you have no idea you are actually succumbing to it - scary stuff. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Warpspeed Guru  Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Its never turned off. Sure, the raw data may be shared and analyzed in different ways by different end users, with slightly different software, but the radar itself is run by the military, and its never switched off. One of its many functions is for drug interdiction (by sea AND AIR). If it only operated a few regular known hours per day it would be pretty useless for that. It certainly does not cover the southern sector of the Indian Ocean, but that aircraft would have started its journey right in the middle of the area Jinderlee is designed to cover. It would have painted a track a blind man could follow right to the edge of coverage showing the direction in which it was heading. Cheers, Tony. |
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Zonker Guru Joined: 18/08/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 761 |
Wait... This just in... Plane located... 
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norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Zonker, In nearly all cases I`d find your post funny but certainly not in this case. My heart goes out to the loved ones of the passengers and crew. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Plane wreck IS essentially located. Seems they have found wreckage off Australia, according to tonight's news. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Zonker Guru Joined: 18/08/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 761 |
Sorry for the post gents.. I didn't mean to offend anyone..! I got the pix in another e-mail and at the time, no one could locate it, and everyone was pointing fingers at everyone else, thinking the plane and passengers were OK and sitting on a tarmac somewere... My apologies.. |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
No offense here Zonker, tis dark days for the world airline industry. But I do believe good will come of this tragedy. Remember back in my early work years, travelled to work 2 months on 1 week off to remote NQ construction sites with Bush Pilots. Scariest time I had was when approaching Weipa strip, sitting next to the pilot in a 2 engine Cessna,(420 I think) about 12 people onboard. Very low cloud and the pilot asked me if I could see the strip, as he believed we were over it.(they flew seat of the pants then) He was obviously very concerned, not enough fuel to return anywhere we circled around for 1/2 hour or so and suddenly could see a glimpse of the coast line. Thankfully he kept his cool and we found Weipa, take my hat off to him he had what it took. Until then really enjoyed flying with these fellows, very down to earth blokes who had a passion for flying. Shook me up badly, quit the job a week later, flew home and forgot about the big money wasn`t worth it. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
I have had few improvements in mind for a while, ever since storage, communication, energy storage and almost everything else improved. Don't know if 'Black Box' kept with improvement, but looks like it didn't: - 30 days pinging time up to depth of few thousand metres - Recording overwritten after 2 hours - Frequency of communication with satellites. Heard that pilots fight very hard not to have live cabin voice transfer or camera. Suppose fair enough, nobody wants to have Big Brother 24/7, but if it comes with the job then there should be not much choice. Not to mention how much stuff can be turned off manually without explanation. Suppose there is fire: If live voice transfer pilot can say: have to turn off this and that while doing it, so at least people on the other end can have some idea instantly. We could have more reflective information for that reason. Plane can have everything turned off, but satellite can ping it and get reflection of something, like reflection from the mirror. I don’t know if I should open my mouth at all, as I don’t have knowledge. However I can see how things around change, so technical communication/data storage/power storage advances should reach flying stock too. Edit: Found page devoted to 'Black Boxes' http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-26/black-box-flight-recor ders/5343456 [quote] There will be costs to mandating such a system, but the benefits are clear. Multi-national search and recovery teams involving a fleet of ships and search aircraft should no longer be necessary. Critical safety data could provide clues of system or structural failures much faster, making the entire air transport system safer. [/quote] Looks that advances are made, approval takes time, but it all happens in its own time. George |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
As I understand it, modern CVR's and FDR's don't use tape anymore - they are all solid-state, containing a "Memory module" which is the crash-hardened part for storing all the information etc. With that in mind, and any modern audio codec such as MP3 or AD4 etc, you could get 12 hours or more of recording easily before it needs to be overwritten, so no sure why it is still only 30 minutes. I guess the theory is, that in any incident which involves a plane crash, it is the last 30 minutes or so which will tell the investigators the most. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
[quote] only 30 minutes [/quote] From what I read, appears that it used to be 30 minutes on tapes and now is 2 hours loop. George |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Acknowledged - my mistake. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| electrondady1 Senior Member  Joined: 12/02/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 208 |
it looks as thought the jet crashed right in that area known as the roaring 40's |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
We shall see. But according to early reports on the search radius, based on the fuel load, it could never have flown that far. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Georgen Guru Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 462 |
Some moved forward after 2009 disaster: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/22/business/international/out side-the-us-steps-to-track-planes-better.html?_r=2 [quote] Air France, spurred by the loss in 2009 of its plane, which went down with 228 people aboard, has already replaced the batteries powering the underwater beacons of its entire fleet of 350 planes. They now last a minimum of 90 days. [/quote] George |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2817 |
I have never really understood how the fuel load dictates a maximum radius. Large planes are designed to 'glide' under a loss of power (not drop out of the sky). So if a plane at 30,000ft or so runs out of fuel, surely it could 'glide' a considerable distance from the point it actually ran out of fuel? Anyone out there got any 'factual' knowledge as to whether large commercial planes can actually 'glide'. For everything Micromite visit micromite.org Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Yes, they all can glide, but naturally, without thrust, gravity will win eventually. Also, engines not producing any thrust, are just great big lumps on the wings creating drag, which further slows you down. But yes - provided the pilot is awake and concious, planes can glide quite well actually. Most planes have a RAT(Ram Air Turbine), which drops down into the wind if the engines stop during flight. This little generator supplied the core instruments with power, and run a pump to keep the hydraulics operational, so that even though it is not a jet plane anymore, it is a controllable glider at least. There have been several cases where planes have run out of fuel, but been able to glide to a successful landing. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Did a bit of a google and it looks like 100km is about the safe limit of a glide. But it depends on how heavy the plane is at the time, head winds, etc, lots of variables. The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9306 |
Yes, they most certainly travel further with plenty of thrust. 
However, if a plane runs out of juice, it does not just plummet to the ground or ocean, but it will certainly begin a gradual decent that you can't get out of. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Here is some technical flight info on the 777. http://conservancy.umn.edu/bitstream/119038/1/Howe-Veenstra_ Ryan_November2011.pdf Gizmo is right (page 40) glide path is about 100 Km from max altitude of 9,000m. At 250 Knots (best lift drag ratio) that is 463 Kmh. So you have about 13 minutes glide time before your feet get wet. Cheers, Tony. |
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| norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Is This how it happened Above is a press release, is it for real? If so it is chilling that it could be so easy. We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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