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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Joystick for the CMM standardization

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Nick

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Joined: 09/06/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 512
Posted: 08:01pm 31 Jan 2013
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  MOBI said   On the subject of joy sticks..

I have tried to get the "space invaders" game to work and although it comes up on the screen and the little beasties shoot at me, I can't get any keyboard response. Was it written only for joystick??


Yes. Atari joystick only.

  MOBI said  
I also notice with all the games that there isn't much "read.me" documentation saying how things work.

And be damned if I can get past level 1 on Donut Dilema. How do you get from the upper left platform to the right? There's a dancing donut in the way and I can't jump it. Am I missing something?


Well, Donut Dilemma has very detailed instructions. When you downloaded the game off my website, did you also download the instruction manual in PDF? It was the link directly to the right of the game download link.

No, you can't jump Donuts. You need to destroy them by throwing dough at them, that makes them pop. To get throws, collect the dough bag first.

It's all in the instructions.

NickEdited by Nick 2013-02-02
 
MOBI
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Joined: 02/12/2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 819
Posted: 08:27pm 31 Jan 2013
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  Nick said  Well, Donut Dilemma has very detailed instructions. When you downloaded the game off my website, did you also download the instruction manual in PDF? It was the link directly to the right of the game download link


Thanks for that. I must have overlooked the download PDF. I'll get it now.

When I had a look at the code for key scan, I could see "key" and "splat", so I guessed there was something else. I had got the dough bag but didn't know what to do with it.

Ta again.

Hope your new MM turns up soon. Withdrawal symptoms are hard to deal with "cold turkey"


David M.
 
Greg Fordyce
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Joined: 16/09/2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 153
Posted: 11:50pm 31 Jan 2013
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How about defining a second joystick "standard" on the arduino pins of the CMM. Seems this would address most of the concerns, keeps compatibly with existing programs and also allows for new programs to be written that need 2 joysticks or one joystick and i2c.

Greg
 
Juri74

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Joined: 06/02/2012
Location: Italy
Posts: 162
Posted: 12:30am 01 Feb 2013
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hello
i'm working on a joystick interface that use only 2 pins of the maximite/maximite color (i2c bus) my interface will support 2 atari/vic20/c64/amiga digital joysticks (with support of a second fire button if present) or 2 anolog joysticks with throttle control (x,y,z axis) and 3 buttons (or a mixed digital/analogic joysticks). with the use of a picaxe 20x2, the type of joystick (atari/commodore style or analogic style) is auto recognized!
The firmware is almost done, and the project is actually on a breadboard. the project have a jumper too to select a couple of joystick so with 2 interfaces on the same line a maximum of 4 joystick can be used. (joy1&2 and joy3&4)
anyone interested? Edited by Juri74 2013-02-02
 
MicroBlocks

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Joined: 12/05/2012
Location: Thailand
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Posted: 01:46am 01 Feb 2013
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Hi Juri,

I thought of that too, but i choose to use the Arduino pins instead.
As joysticks have a easy interface, I2C actually complicate things.

For it to work you would need a constant stream of data, or send on/off messages per switch (this would need the PIC to be in slave mode, otherwise you would waste time polling), you therefore would need to make a decision if the PIC is in master or slave mode.

This would interfere with other possible uses of the I2C that can be much more difficult to control with simple pins. Things like A/D converters, stepper motor control chips, port extenders, etc.


Microblocks. Build with logic.
 
MOBI
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Joined: 02/12/2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 819
Posted: 02:18am 01 Feb 2013
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I think a properly designed PIC as an I2C slave could work as a dual joystick interface.

If you use a switch style joystick (non I2C), I think you would still need to de-bounce the switches by a few milisecs. The I2C can be made to fit within the de-bounce time frame. I think it would be at least as reactive as using the PS2 keyboard.

I've designed a lot of PIC based I2C slaves. The only thing I have misgivings with is the proportional joystick (pot based) as you have to do an ADC which takes time. Would need to test my 7 channel ADC I2C slave to see what its conversion times are. Once again, I think that would also be do-able.
David M.
 
Juri74

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Joined: 06/02/2012
Location: Italy
Posts: 162
Posted: 04:22am 01 Feb 2013
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ofcourse the picaxe is configured to be i2c slave device, it continuosly scan joysticks port and store a special value in memory (for the digital joystick is pretty simple) then with maximite you send a command to read joystick and the picaxe send the last reading stored in memory to the maximite.. actually it is working but i've some glithces with analogic values, when it is ok i will post here schematics and firmware for people interested
first i too started using arduino lines to drive 2 joysticks but monochrome maximite doesn't have arduino lines and 2 digital joysticks with 2 firebuttons take 12 lines out of 20.. leaving little lines free
i think there are 2 roads to take:
1) less lines possible to drive joysticks
2) maximum lines possible to drive joysticks and think to the maximite like a "device for making games" and use the data lines to drive joysticks (digital & anologic) and a serial port.

i opted the first option because i want to use it to make games or programs that doesn't need the data lines, but i want to use it with maximum data lines available to do experimentation with devices etc..
actually i have only ONE maximite color computer so i'm using it at 360 degrees


 
vegipete

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Joined: 29/01/2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1109
Posted: 10:27am 01 Feb 2013
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  cosmic frog said   I'm with Nick on this one. The Atari/Amiga joystick is a tried and tested rock solid standed that has been with us for over 30 years, which, compliments the Maximite perfectly.
Sounds great. But where do you go to buy this 30 year old technology?

To be accepted, it needs to be low cost and easily available. Closest thing on DealExtreme is something like this or this but neither is a complete finished device with buttons.
Visit Vegipete's *Mite Library for cool programs.
 
MicroBlocks

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Joined: 12/05/2012
Location: Thailand
Posts: 2209
Posted: 12:11pm 01 Feb 2013
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I agree with vegipete. Most cheap is a gamepad and many of those are USB.
There are enough for the Sony PS, but that one has some weird connector.

I guess we have to do it in reverse.
First find a good source for joysticks. Good quality and good price.
(I would be willing to organize a group by and keep some in stock if that is what is needed.)
And then see what kind of connection is is used.
Then decide if it is worth it.

We can always fall back to the atari or pc standard.
I go hunting for the Atari style first.

Another option, and one i like very much is to go for the Arcade style.
These can be build for a reasonable price, and adds to the DIY spirit.
Like this one. I bought that a long time ago, it was about 20 US$.
Edited by TZAdvantage 2013-02-02
Microblocks. Build with logic.
 
Juri74

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Joined: 06/02/2012
Location: Italy
Posts: 162
Posted: 01:45am 02 Feb 2013
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totally agree with TZAdvantage, i found some similar on ebay
http://www.ebay.it/itm/1-x-BALL-TOP-JOYSTICK-9-ARCADE-BUTTON S-KIT-10-NEW-/271144558034?pt=UK_Video_Games_Coin_Operated_M J&hash=item3f21799dd2
it's the same joystick plus 9 buttons only 12,99£
a DIY could be a good idea
 
MicroBlocks

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Posted: 02:04am 02 Feb 2013
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Juri. Good find!

I am searching a wholesaler for those kind. Not found yet.
It would be a nice product to off together with a Maximite.


Microblocks. Build with logic.
 
bigmik

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Joined: 20/06/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 2914
Posted: 02:53am 02 Feb 2013
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Lads,

There are these options..

Set of 4 $53US

set of 4 - $64US

Select 4 - same as TZ, $81US

You will note that the unit price is cheap but these particular lots want you to pay for EMS (3day) courier but even so in lots of 4 they are roughly $20 or less

Regards,

Mick

EDIT ***

Two more options cheaper

1 joystick, free shipping $16US

i Joystick, free shipping $10.50US

Mik
Edited by bigmik 2013-02-03
Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<<
 
Nick

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Joined: 09/06/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 512
Posted: 10:08am 02 Feb 2013
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These joystick are for the hardcore arcade gamers and popular for use in MAME cabinets.

Two problems I see:

1) These are hardcore rugged sticks designed for the serious gamer. Probably overkill for the Maximite.

2) You still need to wire it up. It has no case or cable. It's not quite an off-the-shelf plug-and-play solution for everyone.


I just went in to ebay and typed ATARI JOYSTICK and found this for less than $10. A classic original, brand new, fully assembled with cable and plug, Atari joystick.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Atari-2600-7800-Commodore-Wired-C lassic-Joystick-Controller-Pad-NEW-Joy-Stick-/290854851145?p t=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item43b84cd249

And there are heaps of second hand Atari/Amiga joysticks of various styles and price points.

Does it need to be more than this?

NickEdited by Nick 2013-02-03
 
BobD

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Joined: 07/12/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 935
Posted: 10:20am 02 Feb 2013
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No comment from me on suitability but the shipping is from the USA and that triples the price of the item when landed in OZ.


US $19.23 Australia USPS First Class Mail Intl
US $44.28 Australia USPS Priority Mail International
US $58.68 Australia USPS Express Mail International
 
Yankee
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Joined: 28/01/2013
Location: United States
Posts: 5
Posted: 10:22am 02 Feb 2013
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Same idea I had, Nick.. Ordered one earlier today.
 
Nick

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Posts: 512
Posted: 11:16am 02 Feb 2013
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Ahh! Shipping costs!... Where the real ebay profits are made!

What we need here is a China or Hong Kong supplier, free shipping then.

Nick
 
donmck

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Joined: 09/06/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1313
Posted: 11:18am 02 Feb 2013
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There are already WII-NUNCHUK interfaces done for the MaxiMite and DuinoMite:

http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olimex-mod-wii-icsp.html
and:
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/olimex-mod-wii-uext.html

and the hand controllers can be picked up for a couple of bucks including shipping from ebay.

Don...
https://www.dontronics.com
 
Nick

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Joined: 09/06/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 512
Posted: 12:33pm 02 Feb 2013
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Very good Don. All we need is something small and compact like that but for an Atari joystick.

I have the Nunchuk interface connected to my CMM and Donut Dilemma supports it but while it's better than keyboard control, it's nowhere as good as a real stick.

To me anyway.

Nick
 
djuqa

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Joined: 23/11/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 447
Posted: 12:48pm 02 Feb 2013
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How about throwing the Nintendo GamePad (<$5 on ebay) into the ring
The old Atari 9pin is classic but is very difficult to find new.
Maybe a little adaptor board that makes the gamepad look/feel like an Atari 9pin?.
Edited by djuqa 2013-02-03
VK4MU MicroController Units

 
Nick

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Joined: 09/06/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 512
Posted: 02:38pm 02 Feb 2013
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Again, A lot of work just for a joystick. The Nintendo GamePad is not just switches like the Atari. It is a "serial" type of device with circuitry.

Look here...

Nintendo Details

Besides, I still think a stick is better than a pad. Pads utilize the fingers for control. Joystick utilizes the wrist. I suspect for many of us, the wrist is more functional than the fingers.

(No... I'm not going off topic!)

What the Maximite needs is a cheap and readily available plug-in Atari joystick interface and then I might consider trying to import some of those classic Atari joysticks by the box and sell them.

Nick

 
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