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Forum Index : Windmills : New Rotor Hub info
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| brucedownunder2 Guru  Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Gee, this sounds great Glenn. I'm gunna buy one of these new hubs Monday , so here we go again--a whole new round of rewiring ,re thinking , bloody hell, will it ever stop ????--lol. Anyhow , will be the first bloke to print out your wiring diagram later today -have the 80 stator lined up with the heatshrink gun ,cable, solder and sharp stanley ,ready to go. best fun I've had since Mum cut a hole in my pockets--- Bushboy Bushboy |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
Confucius Say 'Man with hole in pocket feel dicky all day' |
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Saaremaa Newbie  Joined: 10/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 13 |
Lots of people will be pleased with this discovery. Now, for those of us who were thinking about fitting the 'standard' hubs with neodymium magnets - what's the best way to go about doing that and ending up with a cogless unit? What size magnets and at what spacing? Is it worth doing - or is it going if it's going to be too hard to get spot on? Suggestions welcome! |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Yes this would also work for a neo conversion, 48 magnets instead of the usual 56. I've tested the new stator/hub on my HAWT, and it works fantastic, started in light winds and was pumping out over 10 amps when the wind picked up. I'm writing up the details now, will post it all at about 7pm. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
OK, now for the details. The new hub has 48 magnets, meaning we need to re-wire the stator into a 7 phase alternator. Now to keep these new 7 phase configurations separate from the old 3 phase configurations, I've come up with a new naming scheme. 7p3p The 7p means its a 7 phase conversion, the 3p means there are 3 poles wired in series. The new 7 phase alternator has a max pole count of 6 for each phase, where the old 3 phase conversions had 14 poles per phase. We can divide the 6 poles into one group of 6 poles in series ( for max voltage ), 2 groups of 3 poles in series, 3 groups of 2 poles, and 6 groups of 1 pole ( for max current ). So... 7p6p = 6 poles wired in series. Max volts, good for slow running windmill. 7p3p = 2 groups with 3 poles each. Less volts more current than above. 7p2p = 3 groups of 2 poles. The best all rounder, similar to the old SP configuration. 7p1p = 6 groups of 1 pole, all wired in parallel. Max current, suits a fast windmill. Last night I re-wired a 0.8mm wire stator into 7p6p to test on my slow turning Lenz windmill.... 
You can see how I numbered the coils to make it easier.... 
That worked a treat, no noise or cogging. Then I re-wired the stator as a 7p2p to suit my faster turning HAWT windmill.... 
I looks ugly, but hell, its a prototype. On the windmill it started in a slight breeze, and was pumping over 10 amps once the wind picked up. This configuration is very similar to the old SP conversion. We still use 2 poles in series, but now there are only 3 groups of these paired poles where a old SP had 7 groups. Now before you think we must be down on power since we have less than half the groups paralled together, remember this is 7 phase power, so there is no net loss. I wont go into this now, but 7 phase power is just as good ( in fact slightly better ) than 3 phase power. Just trust me for now. Here is a zip file with some basic drawings of the different conversions. 2006-10-14_185345_7p1p.zip Each drawing only shows the configuration for one phase, you just need to do the same for the other 6 phases. 
The Star connection is a common connection to all phases. I'll draw up more details in the next couple of days, but for now, If you used a common SP conversion, go for the new 7p2p conversion. A little tip, if you unwind the outer wire one turn, its long enough to reach the next pole ( 7 poles further around the stator ). We've done it, a cogless F&P windmill that starts in light winds with fast blades. Not only does it start easily, but output is improved because we arnt using reshaped pole ends or skewed magnets. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Congratulations Glenn. I will be re-configuring one Sunday,buying the hub Monday -- Never had so much fun since "Sailor" our dog waited for the dunnyman on Monday mornings !! 50 years ago-- bushboy Bushboy |
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| adelaide Regular Member  Joined: 24/03/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 46 |
COOL , thank u for reserch and some testing , some basic grafts would top it off , and a nutter to try it in neo mmm. welll done help to make progres or radio and vitamin b |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I've written up a basic page about the new cogless F&P. http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/articles/coglessFP.asp I'll add more to it over the next week or so, but there is enough info there to do a conversion. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| wayne Newbie Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: CanadaPosts: 29 |
Good work Glenn and excellent write up. I sure wish I had one for my Big Lenz now. I know getting one of these units to Canada would cost a guy alot of beer cans in shipping. Maybe we might see them in our side one day. Just have to wish. Thks Wayne |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Hello . I was speaking to the front-counter spare parts person at Fisher & Paykel the other day at Cleveland,Brisbane. For $54.50 you can pick the new modified magnetic hub up at the front counter. If you get it from an agent it will cost you $15 delivery plus whatever the agent puts on it,(I suppose). (Wonder which company makes these ,as a sub contractor to F&P), sales guy said they don't make them---???.) Bruce  Bushboy |
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| AllanS Regular Member Joined: 05/06/2006 Location: Posts: 67 |
Hey Bushboy, you sure enjoy working in your shed. I see your trousers to the right, jacket and shoes to the left, t-shirt on the chair and cartons half full of booze. No undies though, so at least there was some decorum.  |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
I keep the undies on ---- Don't want to "Frighten the horses" !!! Bushboy Bushboy |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I see a couple of the bottles of Chardonnay are missing too. Just what do you get up to in your workshop Bruce? The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Sory guys ,the clothing is because it's for the brushcutting---the handbrake won't allow me to wear dirty grassy stuff inside ,so I have to strip off before racing to the shower---The booze, well before I found out about windmills,none of that was necessary,lol. PS. if you use "Gaffa" tape to form a dam before you pour resin --make sure it's the fibre cloth re-inforced stuff, my ordinary plastic stuff sort of melted and some resin spewed over the edges- oh well, shi# happens. Bruce Bushboy |
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Megawatt Man Senior Member  Joined: 03/05/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 119 |
Just sitting here thinking hard, it seems that the new rotor must go on a new stator that will have only 36 poles if F&P retain their three phase arrangement. To go to a 7 phase arrangement would mean upping their control electronics by 7/3, so they've probably retained three phases. Does that mean that their new rotor/stator combination will cog? Incidentally, the maths works out for Glenn's 7 phase voltage at 1.90 times greater than the star voltage whereas for the three phase arrangement it was 1.73 times star voltage. Great work gentlemen! Megawatt Man |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Yeah Megawatt Man, I agree that its not likely that F&P went to a 7 phase motor controller, that would need 14 power mosfets! Yet to find out ow many poles were on the stator. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Glenn, Great work, again! Saw the new non-cogging F&Ps at the ecoinnovation web site and Michael Lawley is flogging mills already with those new rotors. I did not think of letting the members know as it will be seven years (?) before they turn up in the dumpsters. There is me with my stingy ways! Anyway, the price is not too steep for the rotors, seeing that you can pick up the stators easily. Great reading! Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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