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Forum Index : Windmills : help me find used 10kw pma motors please
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Greenbelt Guru  Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Turbine-.html 
20=30 KW VAWT Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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GWatPE Senior Member  Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi greenbelt, were you able to get some physical dimensions as well as the power rating. The link goes nowhere BTW. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| 9c12m Newbie  Joined: 04/09/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 28 |
Try : http://qingdaoarena.en.made-in-china.com/product/CbEQlxHOJrY V/China-20-30KW-VAWT-Vertical-Axis-Wind-Turbine-.html or http://tinyurl.com/yljyzz5 D |
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goldhunter_2 Regular Member  Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
I love how every forum for the last 10-12 years I get the same kind of comments towards my user name  it was the first user name I took and chosen for my coin collecting
They have this one also I will just have to check into how much more difficult all the extra restriction form local power company are for have a generator rated over 10kw as I was trying to stay with in there restrictions. I was thinking of a little different blade design but for the price of complete unit they aren't to bad 
VAWT(vertical axis wind turbine) is one of our leading products, out put power from 200w-30kw, ON/OFF grid tie inverter, Ultra lightweight, small size, low wind start, fast generating, reliable speed-restricting and stable running, rated frequency 50Hz or 60Hz and different output voltage, high wind energy utilization rate, suitable for different wind speed area, low rotary speed but high power output, quiet operation and low wear, low starting wind speed, high strength improved composite GRP blades for higher efficiency, powder-coated cast aluminum corrosion protection body, new controller design with electronic torque control... $1000 us each required purchase 3 units http://qingdaoarena.en.made-in-china.com/product/oMnmibIlOpR h/China-VAWT-Vertical-Axis-Wind-Turbine-.html |
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| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
The unit pictured is probably the 200W version. Unless dimensions and other specs are given, It is difficult to make any useful critique. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Thanks Gordon for the tip on bad link. This Link should work. I have fixed the Original post. 20 -30 Kw VAWT Here is some Info on the 10 kw version that is similar to the one goldhunter2 has pictured. this blade has 7 pieces rather than 6. INFO LINK Technical parameter, power curve, and other details of our wind generator will be pesented to customers, so Please contact me if you are interesting on our wind generators. QM-VAWT-10KW/100RPM TECHNICAL PARAMETER Power 10KW The diameter of wind wheel 4.5m Numbers of blade 7PCS Rated rotate speed 100r/min Maximum Speed 120r.min Start up wind speed 4m/s Working wind speed 4--20m/s Security wind speed 40m/s Rated wind speed 10m/s Rated power 10kw The max power 11kw Output voltage(DC) 120/240v The height of tower/weight 12m/2400kg The top part weight 800kg Output control system charger control inverter Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
greenbelt, do you have any ideas on what the sustained wind speed survivability is on both units? |
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| Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
goldhunter2; The spec's below show a security wind speed of 40m/sec. I assume it is maximum survival limit. 130 ft. sec. or 90 MPH. A little short of 130. Info on the 20 KW Technical parameter, power curve, and other details of our wind generator will be pesented to customers, so Please contact me if you are interesting on our wind generators. QM-VAWT-20KW/100RPM TECHNICAL PARAMETER Power 20KW The diameter of wind wheel 6m Numbers of blade 9PCS Rated rotate speed 100r/min Maximum Speed 120r.min Start up wind speed 4m/s Working wind speed 4--20m/s Security wind speed 40m/s Rated wind speed 10m/s Rated power 20kw The max power 22kw Output voltage(DC) 220/280v The height of tower/weight 15m/2700kg The top part weight 1100kg Output control system charger control inverter Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
A typical high end commercial windmill of 3.7m rotor is rated at 1.8kW in 10m/s winds. This is 1.8kW/10.7m^2, or 167W/m^2 of rotor. These units pictured in links above have 10kW rating for 4.5m dia rotor, and what would appear to be 2.4m high sails, so 10.8m^2 area. The same area of wind somehow produces 6x more power. I don't think so. Maybe the units are rated at 20m/s. Maybe a performance graph would be in order. I remember reading the MW HAWTs having high efficiency, around 50%. getting close to Betts limit. I would be put OFF with the weight in a first instance. A job for engineers, and a skycrane. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
ya'll are killing me with the measurements I have a headache for converting such
greenbelt , yes that is one thing the zoning department was very stick about they (the complete unit) has to have a min of 130mph wind rating to get a permit not that I would intentionally leave it up during that or that we have those winds very many times a year but that is there requirements and arguing with the government is like arguing with a woman it doesn't matter what you say they are always right and your always wrong. Is is possible to just purchase the 10kw ,geared 20kw or 30kw generator itself? if so pm me some prices please GWatPe, the first one greenbelt posted was only 253 pounds I believe witch I thought was good since I had planed for 450-500 . What type of weight numbers do you consider to be average for units of this size just for informational purposes ? |
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| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
I doubt you would be pulling these windmills down in preparation for a storm. I think you will be dissapointed with a VAWT windmill option for what you are trying to achieve. I think you need to look at a smaller system. Can you provide a measured wind distribution for your location. If the data on these machines was believable, then a 10kW machine would probably supply sufficient power on average. I personally would not like something that heavy[over 1000kg] up at 15m around my home. If I was a neighbour of yours and you had this size windmill, I would probably complain. I have just helped with a 50' tower and even a 1kW HAWT at 20kg was a big deal. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
indeed 50KG for a f&p dual on a short pole keeps you paying attention 1000KG is going to be an EXPENSIVE exercise, this is a major tower which in my limited experience would cost at least 5x what the turbine is worth and possibly more than the turbine is worth to erect it. My miserable 7m freestanding tower cost $1500 all up installed, unfortunatly double the height means 4x the $$ and at 1000KG I think would cost 4x that again. all of a sudden you're looking at $25K++ for the tower alone which is probably beyond the scope of this forum! will follow with interest Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
well different locations have different issues I guess I can only have a max of 35' tower witch is shorter then your 50' tower and as long as it is secure the weight overhead doesn't concern me I hope we never have another storm hit very close again but that is just a dream and it isn't the fact of the wind speed that bothers me especially since I have to have it certified at those speeds but rather the flying debris. Putting the generator up or down doesn't seem like a a big issue either just hook a boom truck to it and raise or lower it..... now if you had to hire someone to erect your tower or raise and lower the generator witch I assume is what ya'll are talking about I could see that being a big deal and expense yes I have looked at smaller wind systems, solar systems and combination of both and local requirements before down sizing to the 10KW system. The problem I found with the smaller wind mill system is I have to have to many of them, now that one would get a complaint form the neighbors  I have six alternators out there now that I could buy the conversions kits for and make some 400 watt mills but those six would get more visibility to the neighbors and not produce the amount of power as one larger unit. My power usage as a few of you have mentioned is considerably higher then allot of you so to off set it a small system may work in your situation but is impractical for me both visual and power wise
since the generator is my main concern if there is a area or fact about generator itself that "doesn't seem believable" please point those out to me |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
[quote]since the generator is my main concern if there is a area or fact about generator itself that "doesn't seem believable" please point those out to me [/quote] To me it is the simple fact you want to build a VAWT for 10kw. A smaller, lighter, well built and setup HAWT would be more efficent and less scary in some good winds than this monster monstrosity you insist on. If you have poor air at the restricted height you have, than it will make little difference if its a HAWT or a VAWT. Many Hawts get mounted on low towers for various reasons and still preform ok. I have seen Gordons 2 mills which are on low towers due to restrictions, they run whisper quite and i felt very safe standing under them on a windy day. How do you intend to stop a monster VAWT on a good windy day if need be....it will rip your house down. My advice would be put up a smaller cheaper mill and run it for 12 months and then decide on the approach you take for a big mill as i am sure the lessons learnt will change your mind and direction you take in many ways. You have a lot to learn and it will be an expencive curve if you jump directly into a large mill. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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Perry Senior Member Joined: 19/11/2009 Location: Posts: 190 |
And what kits would those be? If your response is going to be 'kits by Wind Blue' or 'anything offered on ebay' looks like we have some education ahead of us. Sounds like this is your first foray into wind so we are being gentle on you. I don't think you realize how hard it is to make 10 kW or even 1 kW for that matter. I would seriously suggest that you build a smaller mill first to fully grasp the technology. We will help you with advice. This would be much better than trying to be the first guy in history to build a huge reliable VAWT for his first turbine. Unless you feel confident that you can pull off what countless DIY'ers and countless companies with million dollar budgets have failed to do. Perry |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
Oh finally we can agree on on that point again
restricted height I have , poor air?? well I don't consider the 20 year average a great it still good even at ground level since it is fairly consist and a unobstructed air flow even at my restricted height should work fine. I can't change the restriction or mother nature so it what I have to work with and I am fine with that I thought we just agreed I wanted a VAWT not a HAWT is it that hard to accept Hummm and here I thought that what I was doing yes you never learn enough and hopefully we will always be learning but it would be far more expensive in the long run to install a dozen toy windmills and have to take them down and trash them in 12 months just to put up some larger windmills |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
well those would be a good example I consider them toys or junk not sufficient ........... are you trying to say they the best thing? No actual it isn't. I had a small HAWT in remote location used for a off grid system in a remote location a few years back while it work good for that remote offgrid location I don't feel and don't want that type of system here I seriously doubt that I would be the first person with any of this technology and my acceptable parameters may be considerable different form others especially ones in commercial applications witch I am not and have no interest in |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
OK lets please try to get back to the generator it self since there seems to be a strong conses that you absolutely have to use a HAWT and a VAWT is not allowed someone please answer this given these base line factors ONLY please 1) you have two wind mills (one VAWT and 1 HAWT)exactly 35' tall in clean air flow 2) both units have 10KW generators 3) for this question we will say both are turning at 200rpm for the same duration Now to me they should produce the same amount of power with the given factors but maybe I am missing something so can someone explain why you think a HAWT would produce more power then a VAWT with the given factors? . |
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| Perry Senior Member Joined: 19/11/2009 Location: Posts: 190 |
I think you picked up my sarcastic tone about auto alternators. OK toy, otherwise junk. You've put up a turbine before so things are looking better. A little experience is always a good thing. Let us know if you find any DIY 10 kW VAWTS. You've been on the forums, probably watched a lot of you tube, Googled the hell out of them. Have you seen one? There is a forum out there, I forgot the URL. I go there every now and then. Might be a good place to research. Perry |
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| Perry Senior Member Joined: 19/11/2009 Location: Posts: 190 |
Nope, The rotor, whether it is VAWT or HAWT will have an associated coefficient of performance, a measure of how much energy is captured from the wind. Typical drag based VAWT's are on the order of .15 while lift based HAWT's can be around .35 Perry |
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