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Forum Index : Electronics : Inverter PCB’s
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Madness Guru  Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
I have had a request for some of these PCBs in the inverter above if anyone is interested. Price would be around $17 each plus post, I still have control boards also for $15 each.  They take 12 HY4008w MOSFETs and will easily do 4KW continuous, they are basic, no Totem poles but work really well off any of the control boards. PCB is 2oz, 200 X 150MM the toroid I am using with this is from the Aerosharp with just the outer windings removed and a 22 turn primary. Heatsink is one from the Aerosharp cut down to suit. You can build one of these with just one 3KW Aerosharp GTI. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| ryanm Senior Member  Joined: 25/09/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 202 |
"the toroid I am using with this is from the Aerosharp with just the outer windings removed and a 22 turn primary." Love the idea of getting one of these going while I psych myself up to do the proper rewind. I've got access to cheap multi-strand 50mm2 cable do you think this would do OK for the primary on a unit designed to run a 1.5kW submersible pump or do I need to get some solid stuff? |
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oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
This is a good sized unit really, and will do almost most everything asked for in a off grid setting. There are a lot of folks around the world building this inverter, and most of them are overbuilding them, going for the 6 fet design with dual or triple stack transformers. This 12 fet design from Mad I think is an excellent start point, and probably will do everything wished for... ie you may never bother with a bigger one. I found the 16 fet unit I now do, is ample for everything all off gridders need to do... but I don't have 24hr air conditioning needs either. ryanm, this thing will eat your pump, and boil a jug at the same time. Mad has shown that three fets do 4kw all day, and I have shown 2 fets (renewable marks unit) will do 5kw on their own too. When you see the tiny torroids in the Victron 5kw units, we can see we are way over the top here. I still prefer mads multi enamel wire primary. It stays cooler than welding wire, I think the skin effect works here. .......oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| tinyt Guru Joined: 12/11/2017 Location: United StatesPosts: 438 |
Since we are winding(re-winding) the power transformer, why not add a 12VAC section. It's output can be used as the source for VFB. No need for the 12V stepdown transformer in the control PCB. Also, optionally embed a thermistor. Just an idea. |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Is adding those extra windings going to reflect what is really going on in the Secondary? For those that are interested in the primary winding method that Oztules mentioned above you can find out more about that here. The only draw back with this smaller size toroid that I have seen is that runs a bit warmer than the big double version under the same load. That just means your fans need to run a bit more which is no big deal and the tiny amount of power used is much less than what you gain with a lower idle current of the smaller toroid. In the last 24 hours that the above inverter has been running our house the heatsink has had a maximum temperature of 36 and the toroid 48 degrees. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
The monster advantage this control board has with the arduino is the low voltage cutout. Even if you only use that part of it then it's still a bloody big improvement. You can still use the separate fan control board and not bother using the more complicated cooling method through the arduino if you choose. Having low voltage cutout is fantastic, I can go away and know that it will protect my batteries if someone drains the system too far, AND I can set that voltage. I'm still getting my head around other things while juggling a family and a business, but will look at the temp sensor address thing, if it looks too hard then I can use the dumb bum fan card.... easy, option for both. Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Configuring the Arduino to use the temperature sensors is not difficult. The cheap Chinese ones don't have the address printed on them, you need to use the sketch already posted in this thread. Then enter the addresses into the sketch for the Inverter, once done you should not have to change it. If for some reason you have to change the control card either swap the Nano from the failed board to the new one, swap sensors with or if the Nano is dead also then you are going to have to load the sketch into the replacement anyway. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 513 |
fan control I used thermistors on my fan control... been running for years without fault... accurate within about half/quarter a degree, which is plenty for fan control.. I think it works !! |
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| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
Actually Mark, your different ways to skin a cat works here too.. You can actually use the fan control board to control the under voltage lock out, with whatever hysteresis you choose also. So it is not restricted to an arduino etc for this function either. We chose the arduino way this time so we can program different reasons to turn it off, and choose different scenarios for restarting.... but the fan control board will do an excellent job of it too... with very few changes. We simply use different RC network on the front end with the batt voltage, instead of the thermister ( this will control how many minutes we want to see under voltage before we act), and different feedback loop to control the hysteresis... either more or less resistance to control feedback, or a diode to cause lockdown in event of low voltage.... the diode style would require a manual restart, the resistance cap network would create a timed and voltage dependent start up.... I'd probably go diode. So it wasn't that we couldn't do it easily before.... I was just too lazy to get around to it. So you can see we have plenty of ways to undress the cat I'm afraid. ........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
Hey Oz, that's interesting, didn't know the fan board could be used that way. Setting a LV setpoint and delay on the arduino does seen a bit more user friendly, IF you are comfortable doing that. Setting up a set and forget system for someone who will not look at it again or doesn't want to have any control on their system would lend itself nicely to the other option. Never actually skinned a cat, plenty of roos, jeezuss hell why the frigg do they stink so bad when you start taking the skin off? Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
That is one wild inverter build, never saw that thread before. I have downloaded your sketch and the library ( I won't say that word too loudly) and I will have a play with it, my concern with Thermistors is magnet fields affecting the output. My personal preference will be to stick with the digital sensors. Something you may find worth considering is the watchdog I have used, if your Arduino crashes it will reset it, just a couple lines of code and a library (there is that word again). I have had my charge controller running a long time now with an Arduino, it will crash if the DC wires from the PV are too close to the digital stuff. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
The fan control card has 4 comparators built into the 339 chip. we are only using one at the moment... so plenty of other things it could do. Some users over here I think would benefit from a hard shut down, and some more likely to be comfortable with program logic that they can stipulate how they want it to behave, and what level of redundancy they want. For the years they have been out there with no safety net, and little trouble I am having difficulty knowing which will be best. On balance, the arduino has infinitely more options, and is easy to program, and in this instance will never need an upgrade when having to change boards. Both can be off the control card, so thats not an issue either. But I do have other issues to consider, I won't be around forever, so I also don't want to have programming nonsense that they need to deal with after I'm gone... so thats a case for comparators. Everyone will have different needs I guess, and I'm not sure which way to jump presently. The units require only a low level of proficiency to replace boards, chips, and even fets... that how I wanted them, and that how it has turned out. Providing you use o/loads, no board damage will arise, the chips simply plug in, the fets are simple to replace when no damage....( use o/loaders) it may be a backward step to put in arduino's.... see the problem ? It is not so much which is technically better, it is which is the best in the wild... in real world remote conditions.... Since 1797, when the Sydney Cove sunk near here we have accounted for over one thousand vessels of all sizes according to the Tas Govt... it is a tough neighborhood.... remember we sunk 5 in a single Sydney Hobart yacht race in 1998. Who needs a Burmuda Triangle... we've got Bass Strait. ........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 513 |
I honestly haven't had any dramas.. i usually put a .1 uf cap across the lower resistor and make sure i poll it 10-20 times and average the result (the library does that automatically ).. i guess we all skin that cat differently I think it works !! |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
I have added a few extra components to the 4KW Power PCB that were not there before. Original I had made this board for testing only and had not included any of the protection capacitors of MOVs.  There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
How long do I have to think about it? I am toying with the idea of building a couple of baby 24 volt portable inverters. I am still trying to think of reasons why it wouldn't work. I would like to replicate a 3kw 24 volt latronics inverter on a 5kw lifepo pack. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| johnmc Senior Member Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282 |
Good day Madness, Thanks for your journey into the digital nano world, as it is happening all around us,whether we like it or not. I will have 2 of your small power boards. Cheers john johnmc |
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| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
Yahoo, there are two installations I did over here that are 24v. Been a few years now. The main thing to remember is to down grade the 120r resistor so as to keep the voltage in the 18v range after the resistor. You can use cheaper caps too. .......oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
So far no one is urgently wanting the smaller Power PCBs, I have had requests for 7 so far when it gets closer to 20 I would look at ordering. I am thinking it will be a couple more weeks and I will be thinking about ordering some GTI regulator boards. Combining the orders then would be better as it reduces the freight cost a bit. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
How did you go with winding the primary? Also I have been thinking it might be possible to make a small PCB with the LM339 etc that plugs into the Nano socket to operate the fans and manage LV shutdown. Then the same control PCB could be used with or without a Nano. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| Mulver Senior Member Joined: 27/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 160 |
I'll be keen for some GTI reg boards at the same time! So happy to wait! |
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