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Forum Index : Electronics : Hopefully? Another 48vdc-240vac Toriod Inverter build.
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KeepIS Guru  Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
Thanks Mike, I mentioned before that I confirmed the operation of the full wave active rectifier. As I said a few posts back, it's now adjusting and regulating AC out perfectly. I'm just going through the Current limit trip circuitry and testing options. There is one thing that puzzles me though: 1: Q6 is basically a switch from 5V to SPWMEN 2: SPWMEN by SS1 option link is tied to 5V 3: If the Link was put between pins 2 and 3 accidentally, you would short the 5v regulator to ground if Q6 turned on. In either case Q6 appears to do nothing useful? Is there an error in my circuit. Everything else is logical and straight forward and I will have no issues with the circuit and it operation at this stage. Yes, Looking forward to getting a bigger toriod in the test setup, I have my original test toriod from the AeroSharp ready, so I can do some serious testing once I'm happy with everything. . It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
Forgot the Link to the DSO and component tester. DSO around $79.00 . Edited 2023-05-07 16:46 by KeepIS It's all too hard. Mike. |
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wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1156 |
I wasn't sure if it was only the LCD changing but not the main output or both, glad to hear it is all working fine. The SS1 option link was for hard wiring of an on/off switch or link to test, but yes should not be used with Q6 installed. The logic driving Q6 is 12V hence the 18K base resistor, but it also ensures the full 5V signal to Spwmen when commanded on by the logic, not 5V minus a VBE drop. I should have written a small manual for the PCB, there are probably a few other glitches like that, my bad, but I also thought I was probably the only one who would ever play with it. Maybe 6 months later I would have even killed Q6 refreshing my memory..... Edited 2023-05-07 18:01 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
Great, thought that would be it, yes it took me a bit of detective work a couple of times but perseverance and years of building from scratch started to get the remaining brain cells to cooperate as one for a few minutes. I'm going to spend a day or so to test everything correctly and then proceed to the next phase of power (abuse) testing. Thanks for all the help and info. EDIT: FYI: It's now running on the Aerosharp Toriod @ 56V DC. I really feel I need to fit a couple of Big caps to test loads any further. But that can wait a day or so. . Edited 2023-05-07 19:17 by KeepIS It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1156 |
Had a think about the voltage of the LCD and I think I get what is going on. Every suggested version of the EG8010 circuits has the output voltage listed as 220VAC. I think that it is tied internally to the VFB pin and their internal maths says ok VFB = 3V = setpoint = 220V. So if it is regulating and the transformer actually reads 240V on your DVM, you need to get that DVM recalibrated to 220V lol. Sadly I think we are stuck with the fixed 220V display regardless of the true transformer voltage I notice that if you get the serial comms working there are various commands & some registers listed as reserved. My advice is dont fiddle but maybe some are for calibration of V & I? Maybe an email to the chip manufacturer posing the issue they might be helpful ? I suggest you dont tell them the scheme we have forced their chip to submit to.... that appears maybe might work better than their implementations. Edited 2023-05-07 19:58 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
Yes I agree, I'm not even going to bother with it, but it is handy to calibrate a temperature sensor and a basic check for a first time run of the board. EDIT: Just a comment about Solar Back feed mentioned it Madness thread. I will never be backfeeding   . Edited 2023-05-08 08:30 by KeepIS It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
A question for Mike [wiseguy]. I have your Solenoid control system working, I found your Nucleo Auto startup interface wiring, it applies to the 8010 as well, and that confirmed my rough drawing of how it should work. So I set up a test layout with this on the bench to see how it powered the inverter on / off, I was looking for any glitches etc. Before I did this I cut the ground pin off of the SSI jumper block, we discussed the SSI the other day. I can now see how this can be used to control SPWMEN via on/off. The Inverter powers up correctly, but will not turn off the Solenoid when the On/Off switch is moved to OFF. A: The Low V LED lights when switched to the off position which is correct, but it appears the VFB signal might be holding the Solenoid ON. B: On, Off functions correctly if the Power unit is inhibited, and the only signal difference is VFB driving Q8 to latch the Solenoid. If I remove the SSI link, it turns off correctly when SPWMEN is pulled low via R30 when Q6 is switched off. And it powers up correctly with Soft start. I like this scheme if this is the expected behavior. I do notice a slight decaying ring on the DSO across the AC output as the inverter is powered off. About 10 cycles rapidly decaying and I guess under under 50Vac, looks to be around 400hz, but hard to tell at this stage, it does not seem to be an issue at all in the inverter at this stage. Likely normal as energy is released. The first difference I notice with this signaling scheme when HUM / Growl was introduced in the standard Inverter, it is now a Buzz much higher in frequency, likely 100Hz but sounds higher, must look when I get a chance. Really like how this is preforming so far. Hope above makes sense, understand if you are busy, this can all wait as it appears to be doing exactly what it was meant to do. EDIT: Managed to get this at power off, looks like decay as SPWMEM is cut dead.  FYI: I have tried every combination of power removal, interruption, over current, over temp, low voltage etc and I can not fault it. . Edited 2023-05-08 19:45 by KeepIS It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
Has anyone used one of these isolated DC/AC to 12v supply: WX-DC12003 available in various voltages, seems like they have been around forever. 12v isolated supply I'm wondering how hot they get in normal running. Tiny transformer is quite warm to touch. . It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1156 |
Hi Mike, just got back from a night out so might not make a heap of sense. The SS1 link should not be installed for normal operation. After the run switch is set to on, Vcap and Vlow Leds will go out and then spwmen is activated via Q6 & ramp up begins. When the switch is set to stop the low voltage is activated via Q7 and Spwmen is set low, but the solenoid is still driven during the ramp down phase. When VFB has fallen to a low voltage - less than 0.6V and after a short delay, U3b & Q8 which were holding the solenoid on now turns off Q7 and allows the solenoid to open and then full galvanic isolation resumes. Let me know if this makes sense. That power off decaying oscillation picture looks suspect - never seen anything like that before and it happened at normal running amplitude ? Why did it not decay to almost nothing before it turned off. The rampup when switched on and then rampdown after switch off really should work flawlessly, it should not be possible to stop it mid cycle like that ? If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
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| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1156 |
Mike I've only ever used the two at the top of the picture blue on left yellow on right, both have the little pcb protrusions for in and out pins. I use them for gate drives which is typically ~ 25 - 75mA, from 48V in. They start at ~ 30V DC and usually run almost cold. If you are driving a few hundred milliamps with a 48V input they would probably run quite a bit warmer - what is the load ? Edited 2023-05-09 01:20 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
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Murphy's friend Guru Joined: 04/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 648 |
I use some of those shown but the one in the top right & left corners would not start up reliably with 55V, at least the ones I have here. Good idea to check the startup voltage, once running they work on a considerably lower input voltage. |
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| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1156 |
Perhaps they just look like the ones I have, I will confirm later what is in my parts bin. Mine definitely all start at ~ 30V or they would go in the other bin...Maybe I have just been lucky to date. Also I agree after they start at 30V they run ok down to ~ 12V from memory. I cant send you a PM Murphy, is your in box full or something - it wont even put your name in the header when I select it ? Maybe the site has a glitch? Edited 2023-05-09 02:12 by wiseguy If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
I have been using these for many years and have never had one fail. But I do not know how hot they get as I use them in my DC regulator for controlling the DC input to my GTI's. The voltages are far too dangerous there to go sticking my fingers in to check temperatures though. They are just driving 2 A3120 Isolated MOSFET drivers, recently I had some of these ICs that were fakes and resulted in a short circuit. The IPSU just shut down blinking its red LED and worked fine after replacing the IC. Edited 2023-05-09 06:13 by Madness There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
Also found this, I selected one that would start at 47v but some are higher. All these type of device will run to low voltage once started. It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
I'm running SS1 without a link. When you say, rampdown, are you saying that if SPWMEN (Output enable) is pulled low, the 8010 continues output SPWM and ramps down? It always ramp up nicely at power on. . It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
Never seen any of this type and the one I have used start below 45VDC. I will have to make a different off board supply for 12V then. I'm using one on the controller board, obviously 48V to 12V supply for the Controller. The ones you used were out of stock when I tried to get them. . It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
Thanks Madness, it's only running from 50 volts so in this case I can stick my finger on the transformer, and it's very warm, but not hot enough to make you remove your finger. . It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
My reply was worded incorrectly: I have never seen any of these sort of AD/DC isolated supplies start below 45V, even tiny plugpacks with the rectifier removed. Like I said, I may have to make and off board 12v supply for it . It's all too hard. Mike. |
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| wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1156 |
I warned you about my night out. Yes I was confusing it with the nano. The VFB is just monitored to ensure SPWM/mains output had stopped before allowing the contactor to open. Ramp down was a nano function not EG8010 function. The decaying ringing I had not observed but then again I probably spent less than an hour from first turn on to bug fixes to shelving for playing with later. If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
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| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1679 |
No worries, but I'm trying to get my head around the SPWMEN pin. I wondering if when SPWMEN is pulled low, it disables the output immediately mid stream or, does it disables it at a zero crossing portion of the cycle. In other words, is more then just a dumb fail safe disable. I just tested by disabling SPWMEN "ONLY", it appears to stop at zero crossing, BUT I may be getting fooled here as everything is more dynamic when you use the use the OFF switch, not only is SPWMEN being pulled low but the DC supply is also being dropped via the contactor switching off, I'm just trying to see if this ringing is a problem. Just pulling the power to the inverter shuts it down with virtually no ringing. . It's all too hard. Mike. |
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