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Forum Index : Windmills : Vawt...going in a big way
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mac46 Guru  Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Vawt, going in a big way... I needed to make one more trip after tools so I brought along the camera... 
This is a break...don't look much like one, but it is. I installed a smaller drive pulley just over the original pulley, and in doing so the allowed space for the hydralic break caliper was reduced...did'nt find out untill I had everything back together that I did'nt have enough room. So I made up this system to replace it. 
This is the break pad end, "duh", as you can se there is'nt a whole lot of room up here...I had trouble getting this picture. ....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Ok, thats better, I've got my glasses on now. Sorry about that. This is the break disc end. Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Mac46 Check your Private Messenger inbox! . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Vawt, going in a big way... I still have'nt had any wind to speek of...3 days now. I cut fit and welded in a steel plate in the sidewall of the vawt base. There was a 13 inch circle cut out of it, it was located near one of the diagonal down braces of the upper structure support. One pass inside and one pass outside...thats finished. Still need to cut a hole for conduit. The wind just is'nt blowing...its not normal, its been blowing since last fall, all winter, and all spring, until recently...now nothing. The storm clamps are off, the break is set tight, just incase a storm blows in tonight. Happy Fathers Day, ....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi mac Murphies law of wind part 2 says that when you need it goes away, Gybersons law of wind says it goes away until you leave the brake off and go to town then big gale comes and destroys the project before you can get home. 
Best of luck Bob Foolin Around |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
VK4AYQ, Thanks for the introduction to Giberson and his laws of "fate", I had'nt herd of him to much...must be part of that "unknown-unknown" factor, I'm wondering...do you suppose he is a brother inlaw to Murphy? I've unlatched the break, and so far nothing except an occasional puff of wind, just enough to tease me into walking around back to see if the mill is turning yet. I was hopeing to atleast have enough to rotate it slowly and exercise the belts alittle, nothing yet. I'm pretty sure this lack of wind thing is only tempory. ...Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Mac46, So you took the hobble off and now it won't GO !. In Astrology, Taurus The Bull behaves similarly, (no Offense to anyone) Giberson “The Language of Science and Faith” (Karl Giberson & Francis Collins) Its What you see when you hold your mouth right,(smile). Wind is on the way, about 7:00 this evening (Guess). The whole state of Montana was covered with Thunderstorms this Morning, 300 Miles wide and 500 miles long. A disturbance this size should bring a bit of wind to Iowa or Missouri. I,m guessing your home state because of a post where you stated that you lived one state west of Illinois. I'm Getting that "Frog in a Blender feeling waiting for some action. BTW Don't Fret about Hijacking my thread Your post was in proper order for the subject Matter. I was suggesting that this would be something to think about before finalizing build Plans. REF; Thread (The Plodding VAWT ). Do you have the Alternator connected to the Batteries yet? Maybe I missed that? ------Cheers Roe Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Greenbelt, I ment no disrespect to anyone about my Giberson remarks, did'nt realize he was a real person...(omg) I've stuck my foot in again. I saw that storm formation you are refering too, on the nat. weather channel. It will come my way, and probably won't take to long. No, I have'nt connected the alternator to the batteries yet...still have a 2" hole to cut for conduit, I don't even have the batteries installed yet and nothing is wired. I have the clutch thrown and the mill is only "trying" to turn the top two shives,...just is'nt any wind. I have more wind inside the house with a fan blowing out the window than what wind is outside in the open air. Speaking of frogs...there is a tree frog up there on top of the mill overhead, little buggers sure like to climb. He better watch it or a hawk will have him for supper. I am interested in you'r "Plodding vawt" alternator consept, and I am studying and reading all I can, time permitting. Its right along the line I was thinking about. Thanks for posting about it and the diagram. ....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
To everyone, I have some wind today "but" its out of the (SE), more teaseing from mother nature. I have two large maple trees located 125 feet directly in line to the mill in a NW direction. I'm in a severe wind shadow for the wind direction today. Winds are 5 to 10 mph by the closest airport...45 miles away. I don't have a speed indicator. I've been playing with the mill and am mostly discouraged with no performance out of it, even in the coast setting, not pulling against anything. I did see it speed up under its own power, but only for a breif few seconds. Another strong storm is tracking its way here, due in a few hours. I'm going out to set the break and storm locks. I am also experianceing problems with the phone lines...computer link is dropping out freq. (Mac, I sent a e-mail). ....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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idwatt Newbie  Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5 |
Hi Mac, I have been reading of your invention for a while now and relate to the excitement you are feeling. I check the website for updates and now .... now... so close and there is no wind 
Just wanted to congratulate you on your perseverance 
It looks a beauty. Cheers Iain There must be a way to use the free power blowing past my house in my house to stop blowing money away out of my house.  |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
idwatt, everyone, Yes, thanks for the shot in the arm. Today would hve been an ideal day to try out the mill...plenty of 10 to 15mph wind. I had chores to do and farming to catch up on, I wanted to try that mill so bad that I could taste it. I knew that if I started playing with it that I would'nt be able to drag myself away from it. I had other things that had to be done today, ...between storms, and more storms, things out in the fields are getting left to fend for themselves. "Had to get out there while I was able". This spring has been a record breaker for the amount of rain. I must say though, the day went very well, accomplished quite alot. Iain, thank you for posting and following my project thread. Welcome to the forum !!! Don't be shy when it comes to questions, thats how we learn and further our understanding. ....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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jamesshaw89 Newbie Joined: 22/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 3 |
Mac, Wanted to pass on my encouragement just read your whole adventure to date. Great read and great pictures. Really interested to see where this ends up and just how much power it is capable of? Have you ever tried the drag style VAWTS? Best of Luck, Jim. |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
You may find at those blade angles the mill wont self start very well. You've got a good build, you just need to experiment to find what works and what dont. How easy is it to change blade angles. Also, some H rotors need a help to get going, something to spin it up to speed before lift takes over and it takes off. Thats why you may see them with a small Savinous rotor in the middle, to get the thing going. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
jamesshaw89, First off, Welcom to the forum, glad that you posted and don't be shy when it comes to questions. Were all here to learn, and have some fun at the same time. (Have I ever tried drag style vawts?) Yes, I think I've had a few that I've tested and played with over the years, I think that there is a place and application for just about any style of wind mill, just depends on what you need to it to do for you. I think that the "Lenz" turbines are what turned my thinking torwards a wind turbine with wings..."this is not an easy project", and certainly not a cheep one either, but most of my parts and stuff has been just laying around here. I've picked over my iron pile so many times that I have memorized the location and quantity of just about everything out there. But, the important thing is that I am haveing fun and learning at the same time. ...Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Gizmo, Hi, Thanks for posting, The blade angle is very easy to adjust, I adjusted them the day before yesterday several times...originaly set at 8 degrees inbond at the nose, and are now set at 3 degrees inbound at the nose. This seems to be the sweet spot for self starting. It will self start, but it takes about a 10 mph wind to do it, anything less and forget it. I'm thinking maybe something like a 16 inch cord wing and more of them, or adding 3 smaller wings between the orginal 3 wings that I have now, giving a total of 6 wings. If I remember correctly "VK4AYQ" said that he had 5 wings on his. I feel like I'm disappointing all you guys by not testing this mill today, but I had hay down and needed to get it baled while the sun was out today. I really wanted to get to test run the mill today, the weather has been giving me a fit this spring. There will be another day to play with the mill. Thank you for you'r comments Glen. ...Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Everyone, Another very busy day today, but I did take time to try out the mill. Winds were SSW at 10 to 15 mph, with frequent periods of much less wind...so not an ideal day for testing. I spent a total of 1/2 hour today playing with it. The results were disappointing. I never did get the thing to spin up, even after repeated attemps at hand spinning it. (30 rpm) was about all I could muster from on top of the extension ladder, and it did seem to want to stay running and at one point and did accually start to spin faster, then the wind died down to below 5 mph and it coasted to a near stop. So there you have it in a nut shell. I think the wings are ok at this point in time, however They have'nt spun fast enough to start flying yet...so what I just said has no meaning or merrit. My initial "guess" is that more wings are needed, "and or", an electric motor installed to spin the mill up to speed. (some where around 100 rpm) ....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
Hi mac46, I read your post, It seemed somewhat discouraging I did some math to figure the drag rpm at Ten MPH, This is the way I did It; 10 Mph = 5280 x 10 =52800 feet in one Hour, 52800 /60 = feet per minute = 880 880 /60 = feet per second = 14.66 feet per second. Your mill diameter is roughly 12 feet. the distance around it is 37.7 feet. when dividing 37.7 feet, The circumference, by feet per sec.= 2.57 seconds for 1 revolution. dividing 1-minute (60 seconds) by 2.57sec. = 23.34 rpm. Sounds about what you describe. A 30 MPH wind in drag on your mill would be 70 rpm. Those wings will probably need about 18 MPH wind to fly.(Guessing) But when it does, a grid tie would power the central plains. 
Best to you always.------ Cheers, roe Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
Greenbelt, and Everyone, First, Greenbelt... Yes, discouraged is what I am at this point, and disappointed. I'm rolling over in my head what I can do to improve things right now. Perhaps tomorrow I'll take off the first drive belt and try the mill with only the drag from the bearings and what ever air ristance is on the wings. This may give me some insight as to where to go from here. Everyone,.... "Rome was'nt built in a day", and probably not without a few mis-steps either. As time permitts I will continue on with this project. It stands to reason that I would'nt get it "Right" the first time out of the gates. Saying this...its not because I did'nt try though. Thank you "All" for all the input and suggestions, and for following my progress while building this project. As always, any suggestions, critisim, comments, are welcome and will be considered. "Its so close", must be something I am over looking. ....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Mac I had similar trouble getting mine to start, found out it will not start under load and thats the reason I put a clutch in the drive, the alternator was a large diameter direct drive but had a lot of cogging. Also I tried a SV rotor on the top th get it spinning, that was a positive start at wind speeds above 5 mph. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412 |
VK4AYQ, Thank you for adding that info, I'm thinking about adding a 12 volt starting motor to spin the mill up to speed, but first I am wanting to remove the first drive belt and see what the mill will do...or not do, with the drag of the drive train removed. Was I correct in that you had 5 wings on you vawt? ....Mac46 I'm just a farmer |
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