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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 03:33am 28 Aug 2018
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I am not using the EGS002 and have not had a blowup as the result of turning off the Inverter correctly. Not naming names but someone recently had a failure due to turning off the DC power to the inverter rather than using the pin 6 shut down first. I also had a failure due to my own stupidity when reconnecting power to the inverter with the main breaker turned on even though the run switch was off.
What John has described here was a failure when "Switched the power point off" which in this case has nothing to do with Pin 6 anyway.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1156
Posted: 05:08am 28 Aug 2018
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Can we get over the pin 6 bit Mad.
I simply said that I could relate to the 3 spikes that john had described a few pages before, and through various events I could induce them to occur even with pin 6 disabled. That was the part I was impressing - that the device had an udesirable unexpected behaviour, and there may well be others lurking about.
I have also stated I dont think this or the 110V reading is relevant to his current issues.
If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 05:23am 28 Aug 2018
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The EGS002 was ruled out as being problematic a long time ago by Oztules and the LM393 connected to pin 6 on the EGS002 played a big part in that.
I shutup now.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1156
Posted: 05:56am 28 Aug 2018
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The EGS002 is a flawed design (at least without some modifications) no argument. The 8010 itself though has some undocumented "features" and for me is also not blame free yet. It certainly does not function as expected with regard to pin 6 which is labelled as "SPWM enable" and does not totally disable the pwm outputs even if not enabled - maybe its a chinglish translation issue.
The purpose of this forum as I see it is to help and maybe contribute to the knowledge base & the understanding & shared experience of those here working to a common goal.
I have no desire to big note myself or argue or put down others. I will design my controller board to take account of some of the flaws of the 8010 - fancy not having a pin available for a full reset (restart) function without a full power-down. Although this is a mature part and plenty of others have been involved with it long before me, I believe I brought something new to the table as far as identifying an unexpected behaviour - in the belief it may help someone else designing with the 8010 part.
I will now shut up too. Sorry for hijacking your thread so much John. If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike
Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1026
Posted: 09:32am 28 Aug 2018
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@ John It seems like the inverter was working properly on the small battery bank? Just thinking what could be the difference between that small 48v battery bank and the 1000ah bank & house, Is the large battery bank bonded to earth or something?Cheers Aaron Off The Grid
Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904
Posted: 09:35am 28 Aug 2018
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John, many of us would like to help you but to do that we need a very clear description what you are doing. For example, I have no idea what exactly you mean by "connected to the house system".
As I mentioned in another reply, just connect an AC load to your inverter which is powered from your big 48V battery bank. You *really* need to get it going reliably that way before you connect it to anything like "house system". With a fully charged battery you should even be able to disconnect your battery charging system to eliminate any possible problems from that side.Klaus
johnmc Senior Member Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282
Posted: 11:42am 28 Aug 2018
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Klaus,
My system is connected exactly the same as yours .Grid-off- solar . and has been working for a few years.
What I have failed to considered is that the main battery is always connected to a separate battery charging system consisting of a 2kw array regulated by a midnite controller.
Will need to remove this system the next time I test the inverter.
Cheers john
johnmc
Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904
Posted: 12:23pm 28 Aug 2018
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Yes, It is always easier to troubleshoot an isolated part than one that interacts with others. But, my battery bank is, like yours, charged by a solar controller (outback brand). This controller has an earth connection that goes to its own ground stake. There is a red key type on/off switch on the positive from the controller to the battery so its easy to disconnect - perhaps a good idea if you do not have that already.
I have never checked if the controller ground has a connection to the negative - I assume not. The controller negative is always connected to the battery but there is a circuit breaker on the + and - from the battery to the inverter so it can be completely isolated for my experimenting. Happily that side of the standalone system always worked fine.
Just a thought, do check all your high DC and AC power connections in and around your inverter too. I had some very funny symptoms once (thankfully no blow ups) that boiled down to a connection than became loose (or was never tightened properly ).Klaus
johnmc Senior Member Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282
Posted: 04:33am 01 Sep 2018
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Good Day All
Many thanks to all for your help
Totally removed the midnite classic controller (has been in use for 3 plus years) do not know what is the fault, and not very interested to try it again on my system.
In hind sight I should have disconnected the midnite classic controller many moths ago, just thick I suppose.
At the moment I will use GTI,s as feeders to the ozinverter.
The inverter is now up and running 5kw load.this includes 2kw water pump and the house load.also my inverter welder works well on the ozinverter.
Most impressed with madness,s power board with totem drivers, last blow up, only smoked 8,fets 2,tip41c and 2,tip42c , no damage to the control board at all
Cheers john johnmc
renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678
Posted: 04:50am 01 Sep 2018
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Jeez glad you sorted that out.
Must be heart breaking to work out it was all self inflicted.
How/where did you ground the solar controller?
Sing out if you need any more GTI's, I have a couple here.Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 05:14am 01 Sep 2018
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Good to see you got back on the horse and had a win John. I use an 80A DC breaker and have not had anything fail beyond MOSFETs.
I had 2 Midnite Classics on my system until a few months ago I removed one and sold it. This was due to using my own regulator. I still use one Midnite and will continue to do so until I can write my own version of the online monitoring that the Midnite has.
There should be no reason for the Midnite Charge Controller to cause any problem, but I may be wrong.Edited by Madness 2018-09-02There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678
Posted: 04:53am 09 Sep 2018
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How is it all going now John?Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb
johnmc Senior Member Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282
Posted: 07:07am 09 Sep 2018
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Good day Mark
10 days and still smiling Inverter runs 24/7 for the house.
I have not reconnected the midnite controller, maybe when I rebuild my spare inverter.
My next trick will be to make mad's GTI controller, but that will not be for a few weeks.
Cheers johnjohnmc
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 07:14am 09 Sep 2018
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Good news John is the GTI regulators work very reliably and once I sorted out the initial bugs they work very well and don't have any issues or problems. One thing that helps a lot is they are not like an Inverter that is playing Russian roulette with itself 100 times every second.
I would be very surprised if there is anything wrong with that Midnite charge controller. If you don't plan to use it though they worth at least $500 secondhand.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678
Posted: 09:02am 09 Sep 2018
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Great news John, just be careful not to let the GTI's overfeed/charge the battery.
I have the Mad controller operating now, but only on the 60V DC side so far. Just be careful of the big 5W resistor as it gets pretty hot. (burned my fingees a few times).
You haven't said how you connected the earth for that controller yet, if it was through the house earth that is most likely your problem. I am using a similar one with no ill effects. Get a big ground spike from buggerings, only $10 or so and ground it from there.
BTW the GTI controller is really quick to build.Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb
johnmc Senior Member Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282
Posted: 10:30am 09 Sep 2018
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The midnite controller has is own earth stake .
The solar panels ( 2 , 2kw arrays) are mounted on separate steel frame work . The solar arrays out put is series parallel, to the midnite controller (up to about 130vdc and 32 amps. Midnite connections solar input + and -, separate earth stake ,battery + and - connections.
This setup was working with the happy jack LF inverter, but have not been able to use it with the ozinverter
cheers john johnmc
Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904
Posted: 10:15am 10 Sep 2018
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Hmmmmm, very strange. I happen to have a PJ (happy jack?) inverter here which I just tarted up for sale. It runs fine of the same battery bank that simultaneously powers my ozinverter (Klaus version). Solar controller is a 60A Outback which is fed from a bunch of 24V panels arranged in strings of two - 3KW total.
So, what is different with your set up? I can't see it, other than your higher panel voltage. My controller is happy with strings of two panels.
There should be no issue with different inverters being powered by the same battery bank at the same time, there is none at my place.
Your Midnite controller (I'm not familiar with these) should only output charge for the batteries, it ought not to care one iota what's connected to these batteries.
Was it actually charging when the mosfets blew? or just 'snoozing' as mine says when the bank is full.
I was initially worried there might be problems when I added charging from a little grid tie inverter, running backwards, but that just happily cuts in and out, controlled by a voltage sensing relay and mad's mosfet switch idea.
I can run 3 different inverters at the same time (powering independent loads of course) and feed the battery from two different sources - no problems.
I can understand you are now loath to connect that Midnite controller again, too bad you do not have a small test inverter like mine - perhaps an idea . If it was my problem I would try to connect that controller in stages.
1. connect it to the battery with no solar connected. If there is nothing but the spark from the controller caps charging then this side was cleared.
2. disconnect the battery and connect the solar - making absolutely sure the no load panel voltage does not exceed the controller input. Maybe reduce panel voltage. Since it is not connected to the battery nothing should happen to the inverter.
Perhaps doing the above in the reverse order?Klaus
johnmc Senior Member Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282
Posted: 12:18pm 10 Sep 2018
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Thanks for the input Klaus,
I have blown up at least 4 ozinverter systems on my large 48v battery system which included the midnite controller.
These same ozinverter were working perfectly well when only using my small 48v battery system and no midnite controller. The midnite controller by its self, works well and happily charges the the large battery bank.
Since disconnecting the midnite controller,from the battery bank , the ozinverter has worked perfectly. As the midnite controller, was only connected to the same 48v battery bank main supply, the as the ozinverter was.
I agree with you and fail to see why this causes problems .
At present reconnecting the midnite controller is not being considered .
cheers john
johnmc
johnmc Senior Member Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282
Posted: 10:53am 09 Oct 2018
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The latest on my inverter
Reconnected the midnite controller, but this time changed the position where the output of the midnite controller is feed into the system, from the inverter terminals to the main battery terminals, also I inserted a stainless steel washer under the midnite to the battery connection this I presume will slightly increase the impedance of the midnite controller input.
All as worked with out any error for the past fortnight this includes mig and inverter welder , irrigation pressure pump
I do not know how efficient my inverter is, all I know inverter , has a reasonable sine wave,nothing is overheating, runs the house, yesterday was a hot sunny day and used 32kw power.
Time to think about a backup inverter
cheers johnjohnmc
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 01:17pm 09 Oct 2018
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Very good to hear you have succeeded John, it was not that long ago you put up the white flag.
Would be nice to know what was actually wrong, I very much doubt it was the Midnite charge controller.
There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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