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Forum Index : Windmills : 80-100A Charge Controller Options?
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wallablack Senior Member  Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164 |
Good Morning, I have been looking around and have found very few options for a 80 - 100A Charge Controller for Wind. I have a (MAX)900W 12V Turbine and wish to use it for charging a Battery Bank. My math at max would be basically 900W / 14.1(ish) = 63.8A. An 80A controller would probably do it but I have noticed the 80A rating on most controllers are intermittent amps and 60A continuous, so if I get a full day of good wind and producing 60+A she would warm up and this constant flogging would lead to an early grave. My options I have found are Coleman Air - Any thoughts on these would be appreciated as their C60 or 40A KIT were not that great. The FLEXI CHARGE look like it wold do the job with a 5 year warranty but good marketing doesn't convince me of this "home built look" unit. The likes of Outback has the FLEXmax 80 which says it can be used for hydro but lack of info gets me any further with this one. Any ideas? Changing it to 24V is not an option. Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools. |
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darcyrandall200 Newbie  Joined: 17/01/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 34 |
I wonder if you could wire 2 or more controllers in parallel Thankyou. Regards Darcy Randall, Perth Western Australia |
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| Warpspeed Guru  Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
The biggest difficulty will be finding suitable resistors. Best and most economical resistors to use would be secondhand cast iron load bank resistors that can be purchased secondhand from any large machinery graveyard that specializes in generator sets, large electric motors, and power boards. These are perfect, it is exactly what they were originally designed to do, carry very high current continuously and run VERY hot. And they will be very cheap. Just rusty old lumps of cast iron. Or you can buy new ones that look much nicer, but won't work any better. http://www.widap.ch/en/frs/e-frs-produkte-6-0.htm http://www.eletele.com.br/english/produtos_resistores_ing.as p Cheers, Tony. |
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| anteror Senior Member Joined: 06/10/2009 Location: FinlandPosts: 189 |
Here you can find some; http://www.mwands.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4&zeni d=725992e5612d245eedd2d7cfb7e5979b Antero |
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| wallablack Senior Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164 |
I think it's just re badged Coleman Air controllers. I am not a great fan of Coleman Air controllers but it seems like this might be my option unfortunately. Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools. |
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| wallablack Senior Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164 |
We have been through the resistor scenario in a previous post I made. Your knowledge and advise was good especially the whole temperature thing. I have had some made previously by Hurtle Webster, an Australian company located in Tyabb VIC. They were on the dear side but the specs/ratings were perfect. Unfortunately I have moved them and the mill on to a mate so I can work on one project, and not 47 lol... 
Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
I used to order a great many special high power resistors from Hurtle Webster about twenty five years ago. Back then they were located in a small factory in Mordialloc. They make a top product, and can custom build any high power resistor you could possibly imagine, and they do an excellent job. But for the hobbyist, you really need to be sitting down when you get the quote. If you are a miserable grumpy old cheapskate like me, the rusty old secondhand cast iron resistors, at about one dollar per kilowatt, are the bees knees for anything over about fifty to a hundred amps. You can buy great armfulls of them, and bolt them together to build resistor load banks (with multiple tappings) with just awesome power dissipation. Cheers, Tony. |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Strips of Stainless steel make good high power resisters. If you find a sheet metal shop they will throw out these as off cuts. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| wallablack Senior Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164 |
You need to be very well seated you are correct there. They (Hurtle Webster) is in Tyabb Victoria now. Top bloke. Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools. |
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| wallablack Senior Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164 |
Sooooooooooooooooo.... Any ideas on a Controller? Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Almost any controller will work. The power level is really irrelevant. Just use one or more large power contactors to switch in your load bank resistors as required. Very large three and four pole power contactors are readily available secondhand, and all have removable solenoid coils for which you can buy replacement coils in a whole wide range of dc and ac voltages. Most commonly found secondhand contactors (in Australia) will most likely be fitted with 240 volt ac or 24 volt ac 50Hz contactor coils. But low voltage dc coils (12v,24v,& 48v) for these same contactors will be available on special order as spare parts. Cheers, Tony. |
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| anteror Senior Member Joined: 06/10/2009 Location: FinlandPosts: 189 |
If you read my story about "Factory made.." you can find, my solution. You can find it also, from solar section; "Solar and wind hybrid system in Finland.." Nowadays, you can find from E Bay water heating elements.. Antero |
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fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
If you want one of the best affordable battery management Voltage controllers, buy a Plasmatronics PL20 , it can be set up with exact battery voltage and battery management sets in Program4 , you can feed in 20A of solar as well as control 20A on the load terminal or you can use the load terminal to switch Relays , I would recommend using Solid State DC Relays not coil contactors type. Ebay will get you 80A for $30ea or you could switch number of smaller SSRs . You can also set the Gset terminal to activate relays but there is a slight bit of lag . This way you can control 1000A if need be with the L terminal switching 10 x 100A relays . The trouble with most wind controlers is they are single voltage and this is usless and do nothing to try to properly maintain a battery . The PL20 will do BOOST, Absorb, Float, Equalization cycles. PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| wallablack Senior Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164 |
I totally agree with you here Phil in regards to maintaining the battery banks, this sound like a ripper of an option. I will look at the PL20 to use in that manner, sounds very plausible and seeing as it's a proven method why wouldn't I? Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools. |
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| wallablack Senior Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164 |
I guess to show those who don't understand this concept this is the link to the PL Regulators and Wind Sheet 2 on the Plasmatronics website in the FAQ's in the downloads section. Pretty straight forward really...Thanks Phil! Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools. |
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| BlueSmoke Newbie Joined: 02/05/2013 Location: United StatesPosts: 25 |
Hi Wallablack, Not sure if you're still in decision mode regarding a controller or not. I have the Coleman Air 80A and like it. It's well built, has nice solid connection points, weatherproof enclosure, LEDs to indicate battery SOC and additional relays can be added if desired to raise the Amp rating. Dump load kicks in when needed and is adjustable. I think they are a pretty good bang for the buck and am pleased that I went this route. Never had any problems over the years. If you are not on a tight budget, however, you'll certainly get more control from something like the PL-20 with additional relays. (I wouldn't mind having one ... just can't afford it). I just wanted good diversion control and didn't want to pay the higher price of a quality PWM controller ... the Coleman Air is a good diversion control IMHO. BlueSmoke |
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| wallablack Senior Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164 |
Hi BlueSmoke, A few people hold Coleman Air gear in high regards but I am a bit middle of the road with their products. There C60 is oookaaaay....but not great. I have had about 4 of the basic 40A kits...not a fan either. I think the investment of $300 for the PL20 is well worth it with all consideration given to what it is protecting. A good controller imo could save you thousands down the track. But then I started playing around with a couple of idea which may come to light. Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools. |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
I honestly dont understand why you guys piss away good money on high end controllers for a windmill. If you stop and look at what a windmill voltage controller really is, then its hard to understand where the quality controller at a high price is justified. All a windmill controller is required to do is monitor battery voltage, and once a preset voltage is reached then the mill power is dumped to a resistive load. Allowing for some hysteresis the battery voltage needs to fall back to a lower set voltage level before the mill is switched back to charging the batteries. Windmills are very good at bulk charging and very poor at top end charging a battery, so it will always be a matter of too much power in good winds when the battery is 80-90% charged, when the mill output is greater than the battery can adsorb in current, meaning it will switch to dumping power early. Then it comes down to 2 methods of dumping power. 1. is to dump power from the batteries to make room for more power to replace it, I think this is the most stupid way to solve the problem, but its the most common method used. (like killing an ant with a sledge hammer IMO) 2. You dump just the power from the mill and leave the batteries alone, hell you spend hours putting the power into the batteries, why waste it to make room for more? The second thing that is noticed is the dump load acts like a brake and pulls the mill rpm down, and soon as a lull in the wind arrives it places the mill into stall due to the full loading, a resistor load is not like a battery that allows the mill to spin up freely to cutin speed, the resistive load is from 0.1v upwards, so it effectively brakes the mill sinking all the power it can make and turning the power into heat. If the mill is only making 100w in stall than that is all that's being dumped. When dumping from the batteries its high current (say 80 amp) for as long as the mill is in dump mode.( huge heat produced) Where as dumping just the mill, its the full mill output for the period of the high gust of wind, then the mill will stall under load. (its not common to have no changes in wind speed, even in a storm), but its still has maximum loading to the mill via the resistors regardless of wind speed. Its a simple design solution of using 2 x 3 phase rectifiers, one to the batteries and the second to the dumpload via a solid state relay (SSR), both rectifier are parallel wired on the AC side, this solves the diode loss problem of needing a in line diode between rectifier and batteries. Nearly all controllers failures are due to switching high currents, either from the contact arcing (80amp is like striking a welding electrode) or prolonged high current through the contacts, that is why i recommend using a SSR as there is no contacts to arc as its a electronic switch, that can be switched on and off many time in a small time frame without problems. (not like relay chatter or buzzing of contacts) conclusion....... Add a SSR to the controller to do the heavy switching and use the controller to switch the SSR. Use a extra 3 phase rectifier and dump the mill and not the batteries. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| wallablack Senior Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164 |
Hi Pete, It is the follow the leader syndrome I think, the last bloke did it, and the bloke before him and so on...follow the leader 'cos it works and good marketing has sold it to the masses. I like this idea and you mentioned it a while back. The concept is very good and effective to someone who has done it and understands it, but for some it is different so I guess so it gets put the "further research required" basket. Would you like to share a sketch diagram, SSR details and what controls the SSR? Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools. |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
I agree with Pete on the way of controlling the power from the mill and this method "Restitive Loading " can be done with any Suitable Voltage control , there are Pros and Cons for both ways and as Pete has said Dump Loads do draw power out of the Batteries that has already been stored . The problem is the low end controls usually only have 2 voltage set points Hi / Lo , this will be fine if it just a windmill control but if you are also putting in Solar as well as wind which most do , and you may have forked out $3000++++ for a good set of Batteries then the basic control is poison to a substantial investment, but if you are just playing around with scrap batteries and garden lights then cheap is the way to go . Cheap Voltage controllers are a very poor way of maintaining/Charging Costly LA Batteries, one day when the novelty of checking the batteries electrolite regularly and you all of a sudden realize that the LVD on the inverter disconnected and/or you havn't checked them for a couple of months then find when you look into the top of the Batts that you can see Lead ,Its now to late is when you will kick yourself when the most expensive item "The Batteries" has been damaged and capacity severely reduced, at the end of the day you then buy a decent control + the cost of the cheap one + the reduction in battery life/capacity... Doesn't add up in my book If you have Gel or Sealed batts, then the argument for correct Voltage control is even stronger, IMHO stay away from these types.. The PL type controls can PWM the solar input as well as switch the Windmill Relay( Resistive or Dump , SSR or Contacts ) at the set voltages for Equal / Boost / Absorb and float . By using the Resistive method as Pete has described the mill power will be diverted to a resitor bank and the mill may be stalled and the solar will then be correctly charging the batteries to 100% ( House/living load dependent ) Below is a pic of a wiring Diag I did for a customer with one of the 500W kits I sell and shows resistive loading and SSR, he is completely of grid and , note the PLS2 is not required unless the wind input needs to be added to Total Ahr/In as well . His Battery bank is Hi Quality 1500Ahr Schonhiesens , so a decent investment * Note this mill also had the manual furl opt as it is a weekend retreat , the manual furl is pulled and the shorting(stop) switch activated while he is not there and the solar and PL20 takes care of the rest * 
There is also the option to use the Gset output on the PL as a secondary dump control / generator charge start or quite a few other opts . To me it is the smartest most well thought out and affordable and versitile "BATTERY MANAGEMENT CONTROL " on the market and well worth the investment if you are wanting to protect the "Battery Investment" .... I Don't sell them and maybe I should but I have seen them go as low as $180 SH on Flee Bay. Heres a link to a good read on Correct Battery Management , well worth the read http://marine-electronics.net/techarticle/battery_faq/b_faq. htm#6 PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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