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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Can you rescue AGM battery?

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Georgen
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Joined: 13/09/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 462
Posted: 07:50pm 09 Jul 2012
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Didn't want to post in other thread.

My question is what are signs of AGM battery coming closer to its usage end?

And is there any way to rescue/recondition AGM battery?
George
 
Warpspeed
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Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 4406
Posted: 01:48pm 11 Jul 2012
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Reduced ampere hour capacity.
Increased internal resistance.

Once sealed lead acid batteries begin to die, replacement is the only option.
Think of them as very expensive throw away items.
Cheers,  Tony.
 
mac46

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Joined: 07/02/2008
Location: United States
Posts: 412
Posted: 02:48pm 11 Jul 2012
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Georgen,

welcome to the forum, Becareful with Agm, well, all batteries, as they can and will blow up in you'r face. Some AGM batteries have a thin plastic/vinal covering over the access holes, you may be able to refill them with distilled water, or at least be able to check the individual cells. Good luck with it.

Post a picture of the battery.

Mac46
I'm just a farmer
 
Georgen
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Posts: 462
Posted: 06:24pm 11 Jul 2012
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Image taken from manufacturer site:
http://www.pulsehyper.com.au/phb400.htm



( Blue part is about 1 mm thick metal box )
George
 
Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5078
Posted: 07:29pm 11 Jul 2012
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We used a set of those in a solar car once, without the metal case. Tough little buggers. I had one that was still cranking over my ride on lawn mower 10 years later!

Eventually they just loose capacity, throw away after that. Never seen one of these get hot or swell up, but have seen that problem with many of the 12VA7 style sealed lead acid batteries.

Glenn
The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
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Wombat

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Joined: 27/05/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 72
Posted: 10:22pm 11 Jul 2012
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Hi Georgen. I play with AGM's and have had some successes.

This link which was supplied to me by other members.

2012-03-20_011702_pc_rejuvenate_gelcell_2.pdf

Also have a read of forum,"Battery Rescue" under "Other Stuff"

It's a long read, but very enlightening.

Have fun and stay safe.

Russ.
 
Georgen
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Posts: 462
Posted: 06:15pm 12 Jul 2012
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Thanks for advice.

Managed to peel protective thin plastic cover and underneath are 6 rubber cups.
Cannot see anything in the small hole.

Would "Demineralised" water be any good?

Or I must add distilled water only.

(I have some demineralised water for my car battery)
George
 
mac46

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Joined: 07/02/2008
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Posted: 07:45pm 12 Jul 2012
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Georgen,

I would think distilled would be best but deminerilized would sufice if you can't get ahold of the other. Just a few drops in each cell hole...no more...then charge at a slow rate for a few hours. Check voltage ect. and repeat the process again. I would/nt try to do this more than a few times each day. Let it rest for the day and check again...the battery gets dryed out inside and it takes some TLC to bring it back to being healthy. Take you'r time, be careful.

Mac46
I'm just a farmer
 
Warpspeed
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Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 4406
Posted: 12:26pm 13 Jul 2012
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This sometimes works, but if the battery has been both discharged for a long time, and dried out, the plates will probably also be heavily sulphated.

Adding water will be about as effective as giving a corpse a blood transfusion.
But certainly well worth a try.
Cheers,  Tony.
 
mac46

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Posted: 01:05pm 13 Jul 2012
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I agree Warpspeed, my time is free, advice is also free...both not worth as much.

Mac46
I'm just a farmer
 
Warpspeed
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Posted: 01:12pm 13 Jul 2012
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Haha Mac,
I have tried to rescue many of these "sealed" batteries over the years without a single success.
Those batteries hate me.
Cheers,  Tony.
 
mac46

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Posted: 03:50pm 13 Jul 2012
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I have lots of hope for recovery...after all its Friday the 13th. over here.

Someone has to be lucky with one of these sooner or later.

Mac46
I'm just a farmer
 
yahoo2

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Joined: 05/04/2011
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Posts: 1166
Posted: 09:08pm 13 Jul 2012
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I have got a new tactic for dealing with this sort of thing.



Everything that I stuff up or break, I blame on Auntie Jools carbon tax. It makes me feel so much better about failure. The battery could catch fire and melt the charger and blow up the extinguisher sitting next to it.....and its not my fault
I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not...
 
Warpspeed
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Location: Australia
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Posted: 09:32pm 13 Jul 2012
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You could always try mouth to battery resuscitation.

An former girlfriend recommended pyramid power for fixing anything.


Cheers,  Tony.
 
Georgen
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Posts: 462
Posted: 06:13pm 14 Jul 2012
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Got distilled water and started slowly with 2 cube cm in each cell.

Did it 3 times with no fluid showing above what looked like blotting paper.
Suppose not good sign.

Yesterday I put it on charger 2A from the mains, but then I used 40W solar battery since it also gives about 2A maximum and it was a sunny day.



Today I added again 2 cube cm in each cell 3 times and after last one
I noticed fluid above blotting paper.
Probably not ideal, but only because it diluted original acid concentration.
Battery is used as stationary one so I don't have to worry about spilling acid.

In total every cell took 10 cube cm of water before water showed up.
Does it mean that battery was severely dehydrated?

Plate above says 17Ah for C20 - I understand that brand new battery provides 850mA for 20 hours
( did I get it right ? )
George
 
Warpspeed
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Posted: 06:35pm 14 Jul 2012
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If it can be charged at 2A at only 13.15 volts, that is a very good sign.

Usually when they completely dry out or sulphate up, they just will not charge with any current at all.
Cheers,  Tony.
 
yahoo2

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Posted: 04:25pm 15 Jul 2012
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the reasons for adding little bits at a time are to make sure that the water wicks into the dry patches, if you just fill the cell it may sit on top and not soak in and secondly it needs to mix in with all the concentrated bits to restart the chemical reactions and form the sulphuric acid and not stay in watery pockets and layers.

from what you have said it looks like the battery was not completely dry so you may have some luck. keep an eye on the fluid levels.

Would be nice if you could measure the amps and volts at the same time, you cant really SEE what is happening without both.

has your solar thing got a regulator? if it hasn't then don't use it unless you are standing there and watching it.

Get the damn thing away from your house and sheds and charge it in the open.

shovel
dirt
fire extinguishers close handy


bobs misfortune

We put stuff on the forum so others don't learn the lessons we have. (the hard way)

I manage to catch something on fire or blow it up pretty regularly with no harm done, I lost a valuable car and almost killed myself in a fireball 25 years ago so I am very meticulous with any possible fire hazard Edited by yahoo2 2012-07-17
I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not...
 
Georgen
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Joined: 13/09/2011
Location: Australia
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Posted: 02:17am 16 Jul 2012
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Got a 10A solar regulator and I am there all the time watching like a hawk.

Might have to employ my analogue meter to see both Amps and Volts

I noticed that it only takes few minutes to get from 13V to 14V someting for regulator to kick in.

Suppose 17Ah battery few years old doesn't take as much charge as it would when brand new.

Inspected all the cells and only second cell from the right side (on my picture above) did not absorb all the water and is slightly shining.
Other 5 cells took all the water.
(In few days I'll be tempted to put in 2cm cube more)

In the morning battery reads between 12.62 to 12.65V
George
 
Wombat

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Joined: 27/05/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 72
Posted: 02:50am 16 Jul 2012
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On the right track there George.
Sounds like they were defiantly thirsty.

I have a bunch of 26 and 55Ah battery's I'm playing with, but there not so bad to start with.

I get a bit concerned with excess liquid, simply because it shouldn't be there.
After a day or 2, if it's still there, I drain it off. (AND TAKE CARE!!)

Don't think you will have any trouble with your little 2A charger on them if you keep the voltage below about 14.7. (Check your cycle and standby ratings).
And yes, it's always nice to know what the current is doing. Hopefully, as the voltage goes up, the current come down.

I use a 6A 3 stage charger on 4 - 6 battery's in series, with 2 desulphators, while watching them for odd signs. Takes at least 4 days to see some decent life in them.

 
yahoo2

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Location: Australia
Posts: 1166
Posted: 03:35pm 16 Jul 2012
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Seeing the amps is very important.

A healthy lead battery will stop taking charge and start to gas off and heat up at the point where the amps have stopped reducing. If I am manually charging a large battery bank I check the volts and amps every 15 minutes when I know it is getting close and if it hasn't dropped from the last reading it is done for the day.

example
bank capacity 2200 Ah 12 volt. power supply-110 Amps.
charging history-poor. build date-sept 07.
end current recorded
December 2010..36 Amps
April 2010.....23 amps
October 2010...28 Amps
March 2011.....32 Amps
November 2011..26 Amps

typically that is between 1 and 2% of the batteries labelled capacity depending on the speed of charge, temperature, etc. this does not mean that it is full it may just need a rest so the chemical reaction can catch up.

if your standby/float charge rating is close to or above this point then the charger can not be left on the battery for long periods of time. A bit of hard sulphate on the plates will make this worse.

I use a mechanical timer out of a clothes drier for the first charge of a suspect battery, just add some time whenever I check the battery. Well, I would if someone could bring it back
I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not...
 
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