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brucedownunder2
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Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548

Posted: 10:22pm 21 Dec 2006

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I've sort of finished my new direct drive platform apart from fitting the blades to Trev,s blade hub. In the pic you can see Trev's cast bearing holder and modified spline(extended) on the s/s drive shaft.

This bearing arrangement allows for 2 stators and rotors to be fitted on the single shaft,maybe I can off-set one against the other to sort of maybe cancel out the cogging, we'll see.

Bruce

Bushboy

Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5078

Posted: 04:31am 22 Dec 2006

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Very interresting looking stator, those curved pole ends have got me a little worried. The new stators have less poles, and curved pole ends, so there is a chance these may make less power than the old 42 pole stators. However, the fact they have virtually no cogging is a big plus. It may end up these are suitable for low wind startup, low power windmills. I can see I'm going to have to get one in and have a play.

Glenn

The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
JAQ

KiwiJohn
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Joined: 01/12/2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 691

Posted: 06:10am 22 Dec 2006

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With everyone buying these new F&Ps the factory will get a bit worried about the reliability of their new design and probably change it!

Edited by KiwiJohn 2006-12-23

Gill

Senior Member

Joined: 11/11/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 669

Posted: 10:22am 22 Dec 2006

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Bruce, My next project is to make a duel hub to reduce the cogging.(started collecting already) Would you agree with my assessment of decogging adjustment?
For alignment I see 5 splines of adjustment or in other words 1/5 of a coil change per spline(old stator). On new stator it is twice that at 10 splines of adjustment or 1/10 of a coil change per spline.
In electrical terms you need 60 degrees phase shift between the two stators. If the stators are not perfectly missaligned, ie.a coil on one stator alignes with the gap between coils on the other, then the hub can be moved a spline giving 12degrees phase adjustment until on the 5th spline your back to where you started(old stator)?

was working fine... til the smoke got out.
Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ

brucedownunder2
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Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548

Posted: 07:53pm 22 Dec 2006

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Sounds interesting Gill, I've not tried mixing one new and one old on this extended shaft yet .
But years ago ,I fiddled around with moving the rotors spline at a time ,sort of thing ,. I remember (I think) , that it made a difference to the cogging,but didn't put the set-up on a mast to try it (just bench tested) .

I'll fiddle around today to see if there is any chance of a noticable cogging change.

Bruce

Bushboy

brucedownunder2
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Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548

Posted: 08:39pm 22 Dec 2006

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This is the new set-up. Will try fiddling around with the thing today.

By the way , anyone (Trev) got any idea of making a tool to place and remove one of these rotors ,when the special nylon nut is not used. ?. On the dual rotor set-up you have to remove it (special nut) .

Bruce

Bushboy

Gill

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Joined: 11/11/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 669

Posted: 11:57am 23 Dec 2006

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Sorry Bruce I wasn't suggesting putting an old and new on on at the same time. I was trying to get confirmation of my calcs that for old hub you have 1/4 of a turn on splines for adjustment before your back to the same cogging force. (1/2 a rotation of hub on new type). I frequently confuse myself

Hay great pics Bruce.

was working fine... til the smoke got out.
Cheers Gill _Cairns, FNQ

Highlander

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Joined: 03/10/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 266

Posted: 07:15pm 23 Dec 2006

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G'day Bruce, that new platform looks pretty flash. If I ever get around to making a second mill I'll copy that if you don't mind. What's the bit of angle on the tail shaft for? I'm assuming it's to do with furling.
As for removing the hub after the fp nut is removed you should be able to make extensions on a 3 jaw gear puller or make one from scratch. It appears you have every tool that was invented, nothing like my collection

so you shouldn't find it too hard.
PS that shaft Trev made looks nice, have you got a close up?

Central Victorian highlands

Trev

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Joined: 15/07/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 640

Posted: 11:43am 28 Dec 2006

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Hi Bruce,

Nice work.

With my double White Pointer, I align the poles of the 2 stators. I have North magnet on one motor and South magnet on the other motor. I think its the best for minimising the cogging.

Removing the magnet hub with no nylon nut ( the one at the front), I just pull it off with my hands. I guess if you have a neo conversion on there, then you probably will need to have something to assist removal. A modified gear puller should work fine.

Trev @ drivebynature.com

brucedownunder2
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Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548

Posted: 03:09pm 28 Dec 2006

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Yes, I removed an "ordinary" rotor fairly easy by placing a board at the end of the s/s shaft ,then against my chest ,and pulled the rotor off with my hands,easy.
The Neo conversion might be difficult,but a simple 2 way puller made especially for the rotor will make easy work of it.

Got the new platform up today,direct drive ,yep,u guessed right,wind stopped immediately-but there's allways tomorrow.

Bruce

Bushboy

Robert_VK2BBR

Regular Member

Joined: 31/12/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 67

Posted: 11:05pm 30 Dec 2006

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Hi everone, just joined the forum, been playing with F&P for a couple of months. It is intereting to note that every idea i have come up with so far, I have found some one else has done it already!
Bruce, on your photo gallery you had two rotors glued together,how did that work out?

regards Robert

1555 W grid connect system since Jan 08
both vehicles running on modified, used vege oil.

bob burgess
Newbie

Joined: 31/12/2006
Location:
Posts: 2

Posted: 11:56pm 30 Dec 2006

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Hi Bruce,
sorry ive been away so long but building a house takes a lot of my pleasure time away. I have two twin stator units made now and a mate of mine is going to be the crash test monkey for the first one. I will see him tuesday and will take photos of the unit up and running. I originally built a 4 stator unit but it was way to heavy for me to work on. I have since got a hold of an old galvanised telegraph pole that is 8 mts long, i concreted it into the ground 1.6 mts and will need to finish it soon as we are moving into the house early feb.
I was away so long i forgot my old password! I will post photos next week.

Bob formerly F @ P MURRAY

F @ P Murray

Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5078

Posted: 12:51am 31 Dec 2006

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Hi Robert
I did have a go at the dual rotor setup, photo's here. The problem I found was flexing in the rotor, it just wasnt strong enough to support two rings of magnets. But I think there are possibilities in the design.

Hey Bob, good to see your back, we were worried about you

.

Glenn

The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
JAQ

Robert_VK2BBR

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Joined: 31/12/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 67

Posted: 01:32am 31 Dec 2006

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thanks Glen for the link. I guess i should ask the obvious questions, what does work?
So far i have rewired and flown 3 different configerations on my test pole. The S/P winding of 2 coils works best so far. I havnt tried the decogging but keen to, just got more motors yesterday for further experiments.
To date it seems that the most important element is the blades, mine are lousy, being cut from 200 l drum, only produce about 4 amps into 12v with a good wind. The PVC pipe ones were worse!
I have started on a set of 1.1m wooden ones.

I am tempted to make some foam blanks to cover in epoxy/glass ( I plan to have at leaast 4 flying), what do people think of that?
Robert

1555 W grid connect system since Jan 08
both vehicles running on modified, used vege oil.

brucedownunder2
Guru

Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548

Posted: 02:08am 31 Dec 2006

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Hi Bob and Rob , bye the way Happy New Year to all that are addicted to this site ,,and we all say ,,,Hip Hip array to Glenn, the guy responsible for all our marital breakup's (just joking,true),,hahah.

Anyhow, back to the dual thingo--- I've only tried a dual on a test bed --moving from Sydney to up here was a 1 year event !!!.
Anyhow it looked promising ,if I can remember. I'll set my new F&P models up soon and do some tests,please bear with me ,having my 12 Year Old triplets here for 3 weeks is like serving a life term in Pentridge !!

The piglet needs turning ,so gotta go .
Cheers,
Bruce

Bushboy

bob burgess
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Joined: 31/12/2006
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Posts: 2

Posted: 02:54am 31 Dec 2006

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Yeh thanks Glenn, i have looked at the various twin and quad stator setups and found it best to separate the magnet rings at least 75 to 100mm. I found that the rings seem to "bother each other" but can not for the life of me work out why, you see the canadians and their magnets are very close but those units are not based on manufactured motors. the single unit up in the air for the last year has been regularly giving between 12 and 20 amps in 14 pole star has run the fridge 24/7 the TV when i watch it at night and all the compact flouros, but the windmills best achievment has been the total recharging of all of my Ryobi 18 volt battery drills and saws, this house has been built using the power of the wind. We will move in in early feb and i believe 2 twin stator units backed up by a bit of solar will run a carefully controlled remote power house. i have lived in the shed for the last 9 months and have never run out of stored wind power. Even more interesting is the total size of my current storage bank is made up of only 6 trojan 6 volt T105s, wired in 3 12 volt banks of 2 batteries each, these things are unreal and were given to me by denron metals, i have to look at some 12 volt marine deep cycle batteries out of a container freighter they are about 3 foot by 2 foot by 2 foot as told to me, i will let you know how they go. have a good new year. & nbsp;

Bob

F @ P Murray

Trev

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Joined: 15/07/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 640

Posted: 09:19pm 31 Dec 2006

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Hey Bruce, marital problems..........
I've added a little personal to Trev's diary.

Trev @ drivebynature.com

domwild
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Joined: 16/12/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 873

Posted: 01:41am 02 Jan 2007

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Bruce,
Great workshop! I am green with envy! I see a milling machine, a big drill, etc. And a nice stone wall outside.

Are you still at Mt Tambourine??

The alu hub is from the chap whose ads i saw, I believe, on this board.

Happy New Year!

Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.

Winston Churchill

brucedownunder2
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Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548

Posted: 06:29pm 02 Jan 2007

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Hi Trev , and others.
My twisted humor about Glenn causing us "Marital problems" seems to have been misunderstood. I was just joking about it and sort of saying, we spend a lot of time in our workshop.

Sorry if I offended you , I'll turn off the funny machine and go back to my boring self -oh, and my workshop
Bruce

Bushboy

Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5078

Posted: 08:43pm 02 Jan 2007

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Hey Bruce

I would'nt worry about it, I think everyone got the joke.

Did you have any success with the dual hub? Which configurations are you running. I've been tempted to try the dual stator myself on a couple of the 7 phase conversions, I have two of the new magent hubs now so startup should be easy.

Glenn

The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
JAQ

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