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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Maximite and the EEVblog.
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donmck Guru  Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1313 |
Maximite and the EEVblog. As stocks of Maximites are finally starting to appear, I felt it was time to send Dave Jones a Maximite unit, so that he could feature it in one of his videos. What would be better than featuring Australia's own Maximite Computer on Australia's own EEVblog. For those that aren't aware, Dave's video blog is at: http://www.eevblog.com/ and the forum is at: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/ I am starting to think that the Maximite's popularity is based on your involvement in the BASIC language computers of the late 70s, and into the early 80s. If you are not part of this group, then you will have none of the magic that is required to see what the Maximite is all about, or the potential of it. Dave has been very responsive with good feed back, but can't see that this is the killer application that I have suggested. He says "Speed comparisons will be made and demanded. A basic comparison used in these types of benchmarks is the simple maximum toggle rate of an I/O pin in a simple repeat loop." Sure I could do some timing, but I know that a BASIC language program written in C initially, will be a lot slower than a straight C program. But do I care? I just want to program in BASIC. Mick has assisted me greatly in trying to convince Dave that the Maximite is a worthy product to do a video blog on, but instead of me telling you what Dave did and didn't say, I felt it would be much better for the members of this Forum to tell Dave what they really think about the Maximite. You can do this in one of two ways: 1) If you are already a member, drop a message in his Forum, and tell the members what you think about the Maximite. 2) Send Dave an email: [code] Dave Jones <dave AT eevblog.com> Hi Dave, I am a member of the Maximite Forum at the Back Shed, and would like you to feature the Maximite in an upcoming episode of your Video Blog. Cheers {insert your name here} [/code] Dave has many emails these days, so please don't expect a response from that email address. It may be better to post a message on his Forum. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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Geoffg Guru Joined: 06/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3194 |
I have seen some of Dave's reviews and he is someone of definite opinions based on his personal experiences. This is the great aspect of his commentary (the honesty) but if Dave does not "get" something it will not help pushing him. He will end up honestly saying that he does not like it or understand its purpose. This is illustrated by his comment on speed. He is approaching this from the viewpoint of an electronics engineer whereas the Maximite is much more than chip+firmware - it is a learning experience, an experimental tool, a means of monitoring a windmill, etc. I get a lot of emails from Maximite builders and an amazing number are building it with their children, others are just building it as an incentive to learn programming while others are building it just for fun. This is the thing about the Maximite that Dave would find hard to review and I am worried that he would miss the good parts and concentrate on things like speed, nbr of I/O pins and so on. I understand that a good review would help your sales Don but I don't think that this is the way to get one. Geoff Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
News flash from the admins desk..... David Jones is now a member of this forum. Glenn. The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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EEVblog Newbie  Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 11 |
Hi Everyone And thanks to Don for getting me mixed up in all this and sending me a Maximite SM1 board to play with! And please forgive me and correct me if I get any technical details wrong, I have barely played with the Maximite or read the documentation so far, so all my comments are off-the-cuff gut feel first impression stuff. Here are my thoughts on the Maximite in summary form: - I think it's neat, I like it. I get that it's a BASIC computer on a single chip. I like that it can hook directly up to a monitor and keyboard, or use a serial interface. No need for a compiler. I think this will excite many Ardunio people. - Is it any easier than the Arduino language's simplified C? Maybe just a little, but I don't think there's much in it. After all, the Arduino language has gotten tens of thousands of people who have no idea about programming or electronics into microcontrollers and embedded computing. Even worse, it was originally designed for "artists"! So I think anyone who tries to extol the virtues of BASIC over the simplified C are realistically on shaky ground here. But yes, interpreted BASIC provides the "immediacy" of excution like it always has, so some benefit there. - The first thing I thought when I saw the SC article was "This should be redone in an Arduino Uno form factor". And after playing a little bit with Don's SM1 board, I'm still of the same opinion. I hear there are plans for kind of "Arduino compatible" unit that may be only partially compatible with some shields out there. Not good enough IMO. If you don't nail the basic pin compatibility then I don't think you should even bother. It gets to messy for not as much benefit. Bit the bullet and do it properly if that is required. - Don doesn't quite get at when I mention the speed :-P Once this baby hits the Open Source Hardware industry in general, I guarantee you people will ask "how fast can it execute instructions"? Not that many will particularly care exactly, but they DO want to know, so they know what limitations they are up against. I don't think Don sees the big picture here :-P He seems happy for the Maximite to plod along with interpreted BASIC and fulfill his BASIC retro fetish. But I see it's future as much greater than this. People will expand it, push it, modify it, and use in ways we can't even think up yet. Look at the Arduino, it started off the same way as the Maximite, but now it's been expanded into so many forms. Take a look at the UAV market for example, the Arduino now dominates the radio control, autonomous vehicle and quadcopter controller markets! So yes, speed is important. People will want to push this thing. You at least need to publish the speed numbers so people know what the limitations are up front. It's no good to just say "speed doesn't matter, this is BASIC, don't you get it?". - I don't see BASIC as the big draw card here, especially in the OSHW industry. People don't care, this a young generation, and they are smart, they don't care if it's BASIC, C, or Klingon, they just want to use it to MAKE stuff. So I see the big benefit of the Maximite being it's ability to not require a compiler and any installed software system. It "just works". I see THAT as the magic Don is talking about, not the teary eyed retro BASIC computer mentality. And trust me, I have that same affinity for old BASIC computers, but I'm being realistic in today's market. - And one last thing. I haven't played with the BASIC much yet, but I'm assuming it line number based? If so, if there is a way to drop the line numbers and make it more QuickBasic like, then I see that as a huge advantage. In terms of people sharing code and routines. Then they can just drop code snippets into their code and not have to dick around with line numbers. This is a big aspect of the Arduino community. Regards Dave. |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Oh! He will see my comment. I gotta run... Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
AMEN! Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
The way I see it, the Maximite is something new. It needs to be in a class of its own. Its not a fast microcontroller, or a PC, its somewhere in between, and it shouldn't be compared to either. I do see a big future for the Maximite and similar devices. The high level BASIC language used in the Maximite was very popular a few years ago, and a lot of people are familiar with it. A few days ago I was talking to an engineer friend, James Joyce ((http://www.bigchar.com.au/), who wanted a controller for a stove solid fuel feeder. He was stuck for a solution, as he's not experienced in programming the new micro controllers. I sugested he look at the Maximite, cause it uses BASIC and has 20 I/O pins and a growing comunity. He was excited about the Maximite, cause he remembers GW-Basic and he could program the Maximite to do exactly what he needs it to. If you want a fast microcontroller for a specific task where you dont care about ease of use, then the Maximite is not the best option. But if you want a little computer thats easy to use, easy to learn, and has a growing support group, then the Maximite is a very cool little device. Plus you can play games on it 
I think its only a matter of time before the Maximite finds its feet. It is something new, and like anything new, it takes time for people to realise its potential. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| EEVblog Newbie Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 11 |
Hi Geoff Your last paragraph there I think will help me illustrate my point. Everything you said there applies absolutely EQUALLY to the Arduino. So you can't possibly say that's a unique benefit of Maximite! So that leads me to think "If it's not that, what other unique benefit does it offer?" I am not approaching this a simple "electronics engineer" and it's all about the technical detail, it's not. I'm approaching this on the basis that I see soome good thing in the Maximite, but I also see ways in which it can be made better and more appealing for the wider open source hardware and worldwide hacker/maker community. I want to see this expand and grow into new markets. At present, and at present, realistically, I see few stumbling blocks there. For instance. I seem to be the only person who has realised that the Maximite schematic is released under the "Non-Commercial" CC license. Did you know that this simple aspect will absolutely kill the Maximite in the OSHW industry before it even gets started? Regards Dave. |
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| EEVblog Newbie Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 11 |
Does that mean one person actually agrees with me? *gasp*
Dave. |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Yes, many of us! I fact, I think all (if not yet, then after reading your appreciated guideline). Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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haiqu Senior Member  Joined: 30/07/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 152 |
Dave, welcome to the forum. What's going on with the forum timestamps? It's 8:18pm according to them, and 10:18am according to my PC clock. Rob unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes, fsck, fsck, fsck, umount, sleep |
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| haiqu Senior Member Joined: 30/07/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 152 |
OK, figured it out. Evidently the forum time is set to AEST instead of GMT/UTC (the sensible time). So when I selected +10 at registration I offset myself. Bloody stupid forum software, everyone knows you don't set things to local time on the internet. Should never have been an option. Rob unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes, fsck, fsck, fsck, umount, sleep |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I'll make sure the guy who maintains the forum software receives 50 lashes and misses out on his rum privileges for a month. The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
Hay Dave, send Chris a Maximite to play with. Be good to hear you two talk about it on the Amp Hour! Maybe send one to Jerry as well, I'm sure she will get a kick out of the concept! Wait... Give one to Sagan! By the time he can walk he'll be the next Bill Gates and you could have your silent corporate sponsor!
Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| Geoffg Guru Joined: 06/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3194 |
Dave is right when he says that the Maximite does not compete with the Arduino. But that is OK as it was designed to be something else... a simple, packaged and easy to use computer. No compiler, no software installation, no host computer or downloading. Just turn it on and start playing around. Part of the problem might be that Don sent one of his Maximite clones to Dave rather than the computer described in Silicon Chip (which 97% of people have). Don's clone is a naked PC board which is similar to the Arduino philosophy (rather than a properly packaged micro computer) and perhaps that is what led Dave into thinking that it should belong in the Arduino camp. If Arduino compatibility is used as the starting criteria the Maximite will always fail. But, the Maximite is more than the physical implementation, if Arduino compatibility is important I could easy to port the firmware to the Chipkit Max32 board. You would then have a Maximite with instant Arduino compatibility... but then it would be just another Arduino component and would be lost in the noise. One of the intriguing things about the Maximite phenomenon is the number of people who want to change it into something else already on the market, be it a PC, an Arduino, an XBox, or whatever. But, as Gizmo said, it occupies its own niche and does a good job there. Geoff Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net |
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bigmik Guru Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2914 |
Hi Dave, Glad to see you here, You are well respected in the industry and your input here is valued. Just out of interest, what sort of speed are we talking about that the industry expects? How is it measured? Is it simply the toggling of a single bit high and low? How can we measure it on the maximite? I expect that interpreted BASIC will be slow in comparison but there is already talk of being able to `pull in' code to perform the time intensive tasks.. so for example a block of code in .BIN format `might' be able to be loaded into a protected area of Ram and executed from the basic program, similar to the TRS-80 used to do.. so the mundane user interface stuff can be written in BASIC with calls to the various machine code... Of course this is not present yet but I hope will come in time. Regards, Mik Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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| haiqu Senior Member Joined: 30/07/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 152 |
Jeri already knows about it, I made an entry on her Facebook blog page on 27 July. :-) Rob unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes, fsck, fsck, fsck, umount, sleep |
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Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
I don't need a weather station connected to my Maximite. I can open my Window and take a look. I don't need an LCD display connected to my Maximite. It has a higher resolution VGA display with graphic support in BASIC. Actually, I don't need most of the little circuits available for Arduinos etc. For me, the Maximite is exactly what the cover of Silicon Chip stated, "A PIC-32 based microcomputer" with a built in instant startup, no compiling, interpreted BASIC... ...just like my first computer was, the TRS-80 model 1. I had my son solder up the Maximite as his first soldering project and learned what a computer is and how it came together. He's showing an interest in programming because it's easy to get into on the Maximite. For me, all I want is color and programmable characters and then let the Game programming begin!! :) P.S. If I want a weather station, I can pickup a dedicated unit for less than the price of a Maximite plus interface. (Or just look up BOM on the internet!). Speed? It's fast enough. |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1313 |
Hi Dave, thanks very much for taking the time to join the Forum and placing yourself in a position to take on any suggestions or comments from the members directly, and to give us direct feed back in the way of constructive criticism. I felt like the little kid who threw a bunch of fire crackers into the fire, but didn't wait around long enough to check the results, as I have been out for the day. I do believe that already we have a healthy exchange of messages by getting both Dave and Geoff involved, as well as the forum as a whole. And for Forum members, you may be interested in what Dave had to say about the Maximite back in May of this year: http://www.theamphour.com/page/3/ The Amp Hour #44 — Pernicious Projects, Puppies in Peril About the 22 minute mark, just after the man with the 88 Fluke Multi-meters 
Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I think one of the problems is a lot of people think of the Maximite is a Pic32 chip with a BASIC interpretor. Its not. The Maximite is a complete computer, just add power, keyboard and monitor and you have a fully functional stand alone computer. It comes with a SD card slot, meaning you can fire it up and quickly load up any one of hundreds of programs that could be on a single SD card. You could use it to balance the books, control your farms irrigation system, and then play a game or ten. Comparing a PicAxe or Arduino to a Maximite is like comparing a motorbike to a family car, similar, but very different. The delays in stocking kits caused some potential users to look at other Pic32 based boards, and trying to get the Maximite firmware to run on them. But these are not Maximites as I see it, and have given the Maximite a reputation as a Pic32 chip with BASIC interpretor! Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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