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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : What is Arduino?
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elproducts Senior Member  Joined: 19/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 282 |
This forum sometimes feels like I've travelled back in time with talk of VIC20's/TRS80's and BASIC. I am really shocked by how many times I read posts on this list where someone states they are not familiar with Arduino. It's really interesting but also a bit hard to believe since it's so big over here in the USA. So for those that are not familiar with Arduino I thought I'd give a bit of background. Arduino, invented in Italy, by a small group of Professors has taken over hobbyist development in the USA and many other countries and even used in universities. It was made completely open source so you could build your own very similar to what Geoff has done with Maximite. Open source was the key to its success as the BASIC Stamp from Parallax that it replaced was expensive and closed source. There are now 100's of clones and even more shields (plug in boards). It's Atmel based and recently Microchip released the chipKIT PIC32 based Arduino clone to compete. Companies such as Sparkfun and Adafruit became million dollar online businesses thanks to Arduino. Five years ago in the USA the number of hobbyist's building kits or designing gadgets was close to dead. Arduino turned it around. Now a whole new generation is using electronics because of Arduino. A new term called Hardware Hacker was created for people who took things apart and rebuilt them or used parts to build something else. Many projects used Arduino for the electronics. Hackerspaces popped up everywhere which are rented warehouses that members share the cost of and share equipment. You can get access to all kinds of large tools and space that you as an individual could never buy yourself. Plus you have like minded people to share ideas with. Make Magazine in USA was launched based on the Hacker type crowd. It's helped get more younger people into building things; electronic based and not. They started the MakerFaire where people show off the stuff they've made in their basement, garage or local hackerspace. There are three big MakerFaires in San Mateo California, Detroit, Michigan (where I live) and New York, New York. There are also many mini MakerFaires. I'm going to be setup at the MakerFaire in Detroit at the end of the month and in my booth will be a Maximite setup for people to try out. I'm really curious to see the reaction as I haven't seen too many people in the USA that know about Maximite. For more info on Arduino and MakerFaire visit these websites: Arduino.cc makerfaire.com makezine.com http://hackerspaces.org www.elproducts.com |
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vasi Guru  Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Hi @elproducts, What you don't know, is that Arduino have it's roots in Microchip microcontrollers and Jal language. Massimo Banzi is still member (even if no active anymore) of Yahoo Jallist group. In that time, ATmega was a more powerful microcontroller and it was the choice (of course, it was not the only reason). So, I see the Chipkit board as a legitimate "Arduino" board, although I have reasons to believe that my board FreeJALduino was the first PIC based board with Arduino factory form. But this does not mean that I don't like Arduino based on ATmega or that I am a Microchip fanboy - I have also a Sanguino compatible board with ATmega644P - great microcontroller. Best regards, Vasi Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1313 |
Hi Chuck, Thanks for the rundown, and your take on the Arduino. Because I resell SparkFun products, I have had the dealers department of SparkFun telling me to get into the Arduino, as it is so popular and a great seller. I got a handful of various types to try, and they have been extremely slow sellers. I think Australia is simply too much of a back water. Sales have picked up slightly, and many other Australian companies are starting to push the concept now, so I think it is slowly being recognized in this country. Certainly you and Bill have convinced me on this forum, that the Arduino shield bus principle is the only way to travel, so I am getting on board the bus, and all new boards designed by me will have the Arduino shield bus incorporated into them. I can see so many applications available for the Maximite because of the hundreds of different boards already on the market. From a hardware point of view, I see the flaws in the shield addressing system, and the possible maze of pins verses application problems associated with Maximite and Arduino shields, so I have done something positive to help address these problems. The artwork on this one was only finished today. Was started yesterday. 
Software is another thing. But we not only have Geoff, we have many talented people already on this forum, and I know there will be hundreds more members coming on board very soon. It would have been nice to be able to send you a couple of my new designs for the MakerFaire in Detroit, but I'm sure we will catch up another time in the near future. I'm betting the locals in Detroit, especially the older group, will love the Maximite. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
BTW, Arduino is selling also in Australia and there is a dedicated group of users. The main problem is the C language, even in his easiest form, the Wire language. People around here love Basic language. If you have an Arduino board programmable in an easy form of Basic, without the need of manipulating fuses, they will follow you. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| elproducts Senior Member Joined: 19/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 282 |
Great discussion. I haven't heard much about the JAL Arduino though I did get your email and I am aware of the Pinquino. I am a BASIC programmer at heart. I started on DEK computers and VIC20s/TRS80s. I was one of the first users when BASIC Stamp was launched. I was a beta tester for the first PICBASIC compiler. I was a beta tester for BASIC Atom. I designed and sold many BASIC programmable modules. I've seen a lot over the years. I've since had to learn C and have wrote a few books about it. Other than BASIC Stamp none of these BASIC Modules caught on like Arduino and even BASIC Stamp wasn't this big in the USA. It's been amazing to watch and I credit the open source and the Simplified C language for the success here. It allowed professionals (who tend to use C) and beginners (simplified Arduino C) to work on the same platform. And the applications grew exponentially. Unfortunately though, because of the success, if a new design isn't directly connected to Arduino in some way it tends to get overlooked over here. And I want to see Maximite a success over here as well. There have been some attempts to connect BASIC and Arduino. The Amicus18. myamicus.co.uk or The PICAXE Shield Base http://www.rev-ed.co.uk/docs/axe401.pdf or CHIPINO (I use this in one of my books) can be programmed in any language you choose including PICBASIC and Great Cow BASIC which is an open source BASIC compiler by Hugh Constantine from Australia I believe. chipaxe.com gcbasic.sourceforge.net/index.html And soon we'll have Don's creations using his embedded Maximite and/or DonDuino. It will be interesting how successful these BASIC versions are as they've all appeared in the last 12 months. Don is doing us a great service in connecting these two worlds. We already have some great programmers on this list adding I2C and Color Graphics and Serial, etc. to this open source design. And wait until Geoff adds his work. It is only gonna get better. I am hoping Maximite grows exponentially as well. But what I like about Maximite the most and what I think it has over all the competition is you don't need a computer to program it. Just a Keyboard and Display. That is a feature even an Arduino can't claim. www.elproducts.com |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
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| Ray B Senior Member Joined: 16/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 219 |
elproducts --- thanks for some interesting links like "Great Cow Basic" never heard of it before. So many systems & so little time.... I'm of the opinion that Arduino has not really known how to expose their product in Australia because of the lack of exposure in the bible of Aussie electronic tinkers being Silicon Chip magazine - a publication in it's various form myself and many other on this forum would have read into the 1960's or even earlier when it was simply know as "Radio & Hobbies" The success of PicAxe in Australia & NZ and now our home grown MaxiMite borne out of Silicon Chip are fine examples of how to expose a product by providing complete articles for publication from some of our home grown heros like Stan Swann & now Geoff Graham. Silicon Chip features a "Circuit Notbook"column that is flooded with PicAxe projects and will in the near future I'm sure have a lot of MaxiMite contributions. All good products like Picaxe, Liberty Basic and now MaxiMite depend on excellent forums where members freely contribute time and effort to help others. Out of interest when I looked at your webpage Chuck what I saw was a lot of commercial marketing. Of course you could say that some of the contributors to this forum do their bit of marketting as well but then these are for products we are screaming out for with the MaxiMite and even get published with schematics for those who way want to roll their own modified forms. Regards RayB from Perth WA |
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Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
You hit the nail on that head. Silicon Chip should have a monthly Maximite column that inform the public of developments and offer projects, circuits and programs in order to promote the Maximite and therefore their magazine. The same for Auduino. The columns could be linked with Maximite. It needs to promote both hardware add-ons and software development in order to create and grow the Maximite interest. |
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| aargee Senior Member Joined: 21/08/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 255 |
Ray, I think you meant Radio Hobbies evolved into (the now defunct) Electronics Australia. Although the two magazines were very similar. Can't recall if all four were running at the same time - Electronics Today International (ETI), Electronics Australia, Australian Electronics Monthly (AEM) and the sole survivor, Silicon Chip - I think they did for a few months. The problem with these sort of projects in the past is that it all runs aground after the initial design and maybe one or two add-ons (e.g. The WIB - Website In a Box). A Silicon Chip column or regular updates would certainly cultivate a community atmosphere around the MAximite. - Rob. For crying out loud, all I wanted to do was flash this blasted LED. |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
http://arduinothedocumentary.org/ Is there a movie explaining what is Arduino. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1313 |
Thanks Vasi, straight from the source. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
A screenshot from the movie: 
They are not yet there but Maximite is! I think this is what @elproducts tried to say... Anyway, I think they can change that fast if Maximite model will be successful. Arduino suffered a lot of revisions to became what is today and it will not be unusual for Maximite to have his own revisions. It needs to expose all main peripherals from the microcontroller to be able to achieve the large variety of Arduino projects. It will need at least the 100pin variant. What Arduino have and Maximite don't, is a dedicated team (hardware design, software design, board production and promotion). And then, can be promoted on Australia's schools (it needs a single add-on board with peripherals). If Maximite will not have his own young generation, will be hard to enter and survive on C language territory (the Universities). It will be hard because Arduino and Arduino language are already in schools and also in poor countries where much cheaper 18F2550/4550 Microchip microcotroller is used instead of Arduino, thanks to Pinguino project, which translate Arduino language in C language for SDCC compiler (now it have his own version of 32bit). Venezuela is a successful example: - photo gallery; - site. To make things even harder, there is also LOGO language for robots and have also a dedicated board (can't find right now the other links). As for embeded world, there is eLUA project, LUA interpreter on AVR32 and ARM microcontrollers (Chipkit Max32 was also proposed for a future port). Vasi Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1313 |
At least one Arduino computer..., why not? If someone else doesn't release the news in the next few days, I may have to.
Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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| elproducts Senior Member Joined: 19/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 282 |
I was tipped off that Olimex has an Arduino style board that is PIC32 based. When I first looked at it I noticed the USB connection was direct to the PIC32 and not through a FTDI chip that the chipKIT uses to match Arduino. This is a great step towards getting a Maximite in Arduino footprint. They also have a microSD card slot on the bottom. Unfortunately the PIC32 is not the same one used in the Maximite and I haven't checked that all the other connections would match up. Having said that though, I've heard strong rumors that a version capable of running the Maximite code may be in the works. That would be great news if rumors become reality. 
www.elproducts.com |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Indeed, that is the board specially made by Olimex for the Pinguino32 project (which is crossplatform, and use a completely open source development chain, including newlib - AFAIK, Mpide include Microchip libraries). It would be fantastic to have the same controller as Maximite. Maybe on the next revision, as Pinguino32 IDE have support already for Emperor795 and UBW32 795 boards (with 99% translation of Arduino library - they kicked off Mpide of Chipkit boards) Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| Ray B Senior Member Joined: 16/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 219 |
elproducts reports "I've heard strong rumors that a version capable of running the Maximite code may be in the works". That would be great news if rumors become reality. If this was true this would be a mind blow due to the maturity in the hardware design of the arduino and the vast library of available source code. That product sure needs a BASIC capability. A basic Arduino complete with cables is available on ebay for less than A$20 and for only a few dollars more you can get an ardino with web server capability. No home brew kit in aussie like a MM can compete with that BUT what turns a lot of us on is the extra capability of the MM in it's current state of development with keyboard & VGA as standard and of course programability in basic AND that it is a home grown product with an open source operation system that so many are now tinkering with. Even with the "Simplified C" used in the arduino it is still a onerous task to program when compared to MMBasic. I expect that schools in aussie will start to look at the MM as a first in introduction to programming for schools but only if certainty of supply can be assured. Vasi mentioned Lua - this is something that may be adaptable to using the MM as it's operating system and which opens up a whole new range of options (refer to the eLua webpage on previous post) especially after the MM has some standardised mardware enhancements like serial & I2C. This ends my Monday morning rant but begs comments in response ... RayB from Perth WA |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
I agree. Comparing the Arduino to a Maximite is like comparing a S100 CPU board to a TRS80. Both where working computers, but its was the TRS80 that make the big impact because it was a complete package, like the Maximite. The Maximite IS a VGA/RCA screen, a keyboard, and box that runs BASIC. Without any of those its not a Maximite. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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jman Guru Joined: 12/06/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 711 |
Thats the reason i got one Jman |
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| elproducts Senior Member Joined: 19/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 282 |
Gizmo Wrote: "The Maximite IS a VGA/RCA screen, a keyboard, and box that runs BASIC. Without any of those its not a Maximite. " If Geoff had left off all the expansion I/O commands and that 20 pin header then I would agree, the Maximite is a VGA/RCA screen, a keyboard, and box that runs BASIC. But its so much more than that! It's an embedded controller with direct digital and analog I/O control. It's a display device. It's a personal computer. It's a USB peripheral. That is the brilliance of Geoff's design. It multipurpose. Once programmed the Maximite can be simplified to just a microcontroller and a few components. Geoff proves this by stating this on his own website: "And all this is powered by a single chip which costs just US$8.44." He even shows how simple it can be with his schematic of "An Alternative Maximite". You could never do that with a TRS80. So for those that want to learn/play with electronics via the very popular plug and play capability of the Arduino shields we now have Don's expansion boards and maybe someday an Arduino style Maximite for just another option. But at the heart of anything mentioned here is the chip programmed with Geoff's MM BASIC that makes it a Maximite. www.elproducts.com |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Yeah I agree but thats not quite what I meant. What I was trying to say is the thing that makes the Maximite unique is its screen, keyboard, its BASIC and the fact that you dont need much else to make it go. A lot of people are coming up with other micro boards that could be coerced into running the Maximite firmware, but dont have those basic things. To me there's no real point, unless you can plug in a screen, keyboard, etc. You may as well program them with their native language and end up with a more powerfull and faster micro. Its like taking a old S100 CPU board and dumping a copy of the TRS80 BASIC into its rom and calling it a TRS80, even though it has no screen, keyboard, etc. A TRS80 and a S100 with TRS80 BASIC in ROM are two very different beasts. One of the problems with short supplies of the Altronics Maximite kit is people are looking elsewhere for something they can run the Maximite firmware on. This has lead to others thinking the Maximite is like an Arduino or similar, but with a slower running BASIC interpreter, and therefore dont see the Maximte in its true form, as something unique and new. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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