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Forum Index : Windmills : Anyone used sheet aluminum?
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hey I'm going to buy the sheets of aluminum for my lenz2 wings this weekend. The sheets, 2400 * 1200, will be pop riveted to this frame.... 
Now I have a choice of 1mm ( $50 per sheet ), 0.8mm ($40), or 0.6mm ($30). The 0.6mm is cheap, and I'll need 3 sheets, one for each wing. But I wonder what it will be like to bend around the nose, will it be too weak, etc. I really dont know as I've never used al sheet before. Any suggestions of problems I may have? Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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Bryan1 Guru  Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
Hiya Glenn, Eh mate 0.6 might be a bit too flimsy 0.8 I reckon would be better but also to help stop the al buckling between the bracing I'd be tempted to make some angle out of the off cuts and add a heap more bracing. Now looking at the picture it looks like your nose spacing is 600mm. Now what I'd do is install some angle around the radius to help strenghten the nose, put another cross brace at the centre nose prop then just put some angle across each setion in an X arrangement. By using al angle it shouldn't add too much weight but the extra anchor points will give the sheet better adhersion and shouldn't tend to buckle. The last thing you want is a bird flying ito it and leaving a nice nose impression in your new blades. Just my thoughts Cheers Bryan  |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Thanks for that Bryan, good infomation. I'm also considering zinc sheets. We get a lot of it at work, they use it as a packing material around the heavy steel. They are 2400*1200 and I think about 0.4mm thick. More weight than al, but stronger. Or I could use some sort of plastic, like PVC or Polycarb, but that may get a little expensive. The whole wind will be painted once its finished is my standard windmill blue
Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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whirlybird Newbie  Joined: 08/02/2006 Location: Posts: 27 |
Hey Glen. I sorta hope this does not sound to old fashioned to you, But the more I look at that frame the more I think of the model planes I used to build as a kid. It seems to me that a fabrick cover at least on the large flat area might be light and strong. Also the leading edge could be done with 1/2x1/2 spars running the length of the leading edge and let into the curved shape so they ended up 1/32 inch proud of the outside of the curved ribs. This could then have a thin layer of pvc of formica type material laminated to it with contact glue. All the best, Whirly I am because I am.I am not always right but often I am. |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
hi gimzo l have alot of experience in working on aluminum workplace like road fueltanker in the past so in my experience is 1.2 mm marine grade however i am not too sure about 1mm and would be better to get someone with plate roller to roll the nose that suit your lenz2 wing and it not worth to trying bending the sheet yourself or you be sorry just remmeber alot of road sign are 1,2mm or 2mm are use but never use thinner alloy will advaning crack up please use marine grade is Aluminium 5356 Tensile strength, MPa 240 or simlar as l do hope that l give the right information and l am building lenz with stainless steel is 1 mm dwyer the bushman  |
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makourain Senior Member  Joined: 19/04/2006 Location: Posts: 111 |
this might seem like a bit of a wacko idea, but if you wanted to "cheaply" increase the width of your al sheet, you could get a whole bunch of coke cans and electroplate them on to your al sheet. youd need a fat tub of acid though... |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
HI makourain this not alway nessarly to put sheet in bath of acid simple to clean the sheet with shellite to remove silcone on the sheet before start paint and also can use nail glue before bolt, rivet,screw,and roofing screw and the glue become dry and strong in fews day time 
Dwyer the bushman |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
Hi Gimzo L forgot to tell you about nail glue would give your Lenz2 greater holding strenght and l have use on my aluminum trailer that glue down to steel A frame nail glue can buy from hardware shop that use for timber work but work well on aluminum dwyer the bushman  |
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| KiwiJohn Guru Joined: 01/12/2005 Location: New ZealandPosts: 691 |
I expect the thin alloy would be strong enough and easier to wrap around the frame. If your sheets are big enough I suggest bending a stiffening rib (say 20mm at 90 degrees) along the end that will be fitted to the edge at the top of your frame as it is lying on the floor. Once you start wrapping the sheet around the frame that is the place where I think the sheets will try to buckle. |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
Hi Gimzo say Hey I'm going to buy the sheets of aluminum for my lenz2 wings this weekend. I am intersting to know how did you get on with your Ienz2? and l havent pick up my stainless lenz yet as i am still waiting for sheetmetal company to give me a call when they finish roll the sheet Dwyer |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Dwyer. Well I was going to buy sheets of 0.4mm colourbond. I figure it would be strong and cheap. But its not cheap, $30 per meter, so each wing would cost about $75. I then did a search on Fieldlines for Ed's big Lenz. I dont know how he went with this, but he used 0.020inch aluminum sheet. Thats about 0.5mm. The story is Here. So I might buy 1 sheet of 0.6mm aluminum and see how it handles when I roll and pop rivit it onto the wing frame. This is fun stuff, all new and no one has the answers. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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windstuffnow Newbie Joined: 30/06/2006 Location: United StatesPosts: 31 |
Hi Glenn, The .020 works well. I attatched the outer nose section first and simply rolled the frame around the sheet. Works great! Looking forward to seeing your new machine! Have Fun! |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Hi all. I'm starting on my vart as soon as I get back from my break in Perth . I picked up some curved steel ribs that were formed for a large coffee table --will grind the welds off and I'll have 16 ribs once they are cut in half . I'll watch with interest the progress that you guys are doing. Bruce Bushboy |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
hi gimzo Well I was going to buy sheets of 0.4mm colourbond. I figure it would be strong and cheap. But its not cheap, $30 per meter Gimzo That is great to use 0.4mm colourbond however l dont want to be rude about the cost of 0.4 mm colour is far too expenive is same materail that use on building industrail after been though roofing roller plus cutting cost approx $12 per metre from Metroll company however this high strenght steel and is it very hard to use flames welding on bronze,mig welding or tig welding dwyer the bushman |
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| RossW Guru Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495 |
I agree Glenn, it shouldn't be anything near that expensive. Heck, for the lengths you require, find your local roofing product supplier if you have one, and snaffel their offcuts. It is very hard to weld, but pop-rivets to your frame would go very nicely, and pull it in nice and snug. |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Yup it sounds like that price was a little high then. I might give the sheet of 0.6mm aluminum a go, its only cheap and sounds like Ed found it very easy to roll around the nose. And if it doesn't work, I can make a bucket load of aluminum heat sinks. Its on hold for a couple of weeks anyway, I need to give this place a bit of a clean up before my visitors in a couple of weeks. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
Hi Ross Yes l did forgot mention about pop-rivet or metal screws as it will go very nicely and good looking too and also good for our eyes that'nt get sore 
dwyer the old bushman |
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| AllanS Regular Member  Joined: 05/06/2006 Location: Posts: 67 |
What radius can you get roofing iron rolled to? I reckon it'd be cheaper, and a lot stronger, than aluminium sheet. I doubt the corrugations would affect performance. Might even make it better, like the dimples in a golf ball. |
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| RossW Guru Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495 |
I was planning on only using the un-formed material, straight off the coil. That stuff bends quite nicely and will (if my memory serves) make a radius of 300-400mm quite easily without having to actually *form* it. If you wanted to roll corrigated metal, you need someone with a tank roller, or get the roofing places who will do "bullnose" roofing. We had some tubes made up, took ages to find someone who could/would do it. I think our smallest ones were 600mm dia, and it was about as small as anyone was prepared to go. The "microcorrigated" stuff might be more co-operative though. 
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| AllanS Regular Member Joined: 05/06/2006 Location: Posts: 67 |
Hi Ross, A 300mm radius would make a pretty big turbine. Can't tell you how frustrated I'm feeling, reading this stuff. My own workshop's 2000 miles from where I'm living at the moment. Ah well. Patience is a virtue. |
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