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Forum Index : Windmills : New 500W+ Chinese Windmill
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fillm Guru  Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Hi All , Its been a while since I have posted anything as I have been fairly busy with a couple of projects . I was full steam ahead with the design of my new Ax 300 & Ax 400 when these kits landed on my door and then the fun began . The first 500w Kit went up to Mackay with the dual F&P that was going to be set up to the Mega Piclog project , this was postponed indenfinatly due to problems at the site, I left the 500w kit with Glenn who set it up at a freinds place which turned out to be not a good wind test site . Since then Glenn has moved it to where he is living and has it set up on his logger and hopfully soon some data will be available to be viewed on the site . On first appearance I thought it was a piece of Junk and was happy to be rid of it and get back to my Ax Fx builds, but I bought back a one of the generator heads that Glenn had been given and set it up in the lathe and carried ot some tests on it in 12v & 24V . It was designed as a motor to fit into bikes and there are a wad of them advertised on ebay , it has 51 poles and 46 Neo magnets a strange little motor/generator . As a 12v in its origional wiring config it was hopless and loaded to heavily at low Rpms , 24v was reasonable with 700w @ 350Rpm ,which I think is still a bit low in rpms for the 2.4m Aluminium blade set to deliver that kind of power . I then pulled it apart and found the star point and reconfigured it into delta , put some 2.5mm wire to the stator instead of the piddley 1.5 and wacked it back in the lathe . The difference was a eye opener for 12v and 24v especially . Torque was almost 1/2 at the same output in 12v @ 350rpm @ 550w with a lot higher cut-in, but in 24v for a lower torque @ 550 Rpm it was punching out 1065W and my lathe motor could not go to the next level . 
Pic of Modified stator , drilling has to be enlarged a bit to fit 3 x 2.5mm However the draw back is the high cut-in Rpms of 330 in 24V, which makes it an ideal canidate for the Cap/dblr to take care of the low wind power The one that Glenn is testing has only 1 main modification done so far that is he lengthened the tail approx 250mm to make it track the wind a bit better and adjusted the blades to 10deg . He had some good wind a few weeks back and saw 540w peaks but the low wind is not very good. The kits that I have are the very first models to be produced and I have found quite a few areas that need tweeking , but on the other hand it is a very sturdy little unit with some very good points and with a few mods can be a 1kW mill with good all round performance for the price ,( The kit price and more pics/info is in the For Sale section ) it also comes with a 6m mast that is not a piece of junk. I can't match its performance or cost with my F&P duals and will not be making any more . 
Kit and the tower in packing . I have one up and flying on one of my masts with a logger to monitor performance and it went up at first straight ot of the box , as you can see from the pics it has the Aluminium GE222 airfoil blades on full length steel tubes @ 2.4m Dia , I had fitted a shorting switch first up because these do stop when you short them , I went out for a couple of hrs and of course the wind started and I got a call from the wife to say the mill is shaking the hell out the tower , she threw the switch and it stoped . 
Straight out of the Box . At this point I started to do some mods to get the performance up to what I had seen on the lathe testing , as the blades were on full length steel tubes I decided to move them out to 2.8m, balance them, get the angles right . I am very fussy about 3 main areas- Blade balance , Tracking the wind , Furling that works . Below is the list of what I have done to get it performing 1 ~ Lengthen Blades and dynamic balance & design a simple balance tool for future use 2 ~ change furling angles and also give the tail off-set 3 ~ Increase the tail length and add a kicker to the tail end 4 ~ Strainer stay wire to assist in carrying the tail weight . 5 ~ Re-Wire stator with 2.5 mm wire and set up so Star & Delta can be changed by removing front cover . 6 ~ Increase wire size into and out of slip ring assy 7 ~ Weld in a strainer inside the tube to take the weight of the cable of the slip ring connections 8 ~ Fit a Cap/dblr for low wind performance 
This is the origional tail size against the tail I put on the F&P Duals . 
This One I have now done all the Mods to . The Pic below is one that Forum member Amac has purchased, I have done all the mods to it and is on the way to him at present, he lives in a high wind zone and is setting up logging as well , he will be doing his own thread on how it all goes . 
This Pic shows the difference a Cap/Doubler makes on " Gordons Windmill Analyzer" , this is a great tool to use when comparing changes to performance . 
With all the changes it is now producing good power in low wind , all the readings in the pic above are in wind below 15-20 klm and it starts producing in under 10 klm . PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Yeah I have to say I do see a lot of potential in these windmills. Like a lot of the Chinese imported stuff, it needs work, but the fundamentals of a good windmill are there. Mine has been running for over a month now, and a couple of weeks ago I did indeed see over 500 watts on several occasions during a windy night, peaking at 540 watts. The only change I made was lengthen the tail, the stator is still wired as star and I haven't added a cap doubler. There is no cogging in the motor, and it does start up in light winds, so I think it would benefit from a cap doubler. It will be interresting to see how these windmills develop over time. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Nice one Phillm I feel really privileged to now own a piece of history 
in the F&P dual also known to SPAusnet as the F&P windfun 600. Incidentally making 700W regularly and after a couple of weeks good wind again the running total just over 1.5KW/day. Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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GWatPE Senior Member  Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi Karl, I feel that this sort of info needs to be in the correct units. What you actually mean is 1.5kWh/day. Readers not familiar with this sort of mistake often get confused with it. For the sake of a little extra "h" it makes a big difference, to those who don't know what you really mean. This comes up quite a bit, and I think RossW has mentioned it as well. Don't take offense at this, but it helps to get things right for the many other readers who may be reading these threads, hoping to be informed enough to dabble in windmills. Gordon. <<<---hiding in the glossary section of the forum--->>> become more energy aware |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
[Quote=GWatPE] . . . the many other readers who may be reading these threads, hoping to be informed enough to dabble in windmills. Yeah, like that "Mac" fellow; he could mess up a wet . . . well, you know. You'd think at 62 years old a fellow would know at least some of the most common terms, like "in hand" but no! You can't imagine all the mess that little bit of missed information caused! Live & learn, eh? . . . . . a concerned reader 
Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Mac, If you keep eating those oysters you will workout what IN HAND means
Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Phill Long time no post? Yup' I knew you were up to something. Nice looking mills. Keep it coming always nice to admire your work.  Jim |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
KW/hr eh..... I'd much prefer MW/Hr
Luck favours the well prepared |
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| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi Karl, you are not even close. You are still looking at a rate. Your original quote implied 1.5kW for all of 24 hours = 36kWh for the day. This is not what you really meant. kWh is an amount of power related to an hour, and not a rate. 1kWh, can be 1kW for 1 hour, or 0.5kW for 2 hours. you meant 1.5kWh in 24 hr, or 0.0625kW per hour for 24 hours This is the confusing aspect, and the confusion is propogated when not used correctly. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
bit harsh even for you Gordon 1.5KW/hr average daily production over the last 6 months. Called it the windfun 600 as reasonable to get 300W from each stator. Makes 700W+ in 8m/s+ making it a good low wind turbine. Dad tells me today the paint job has suffered in the weather (my fault) but cracking in 12A@55V or 660W/hr for most of the day today. Quote 1.5KW/day per the original post is pretty clear meaning daily production of 1.5KW as it happens it didnt happen in 1 hr but over a day hence the terminology used -and clarified with "day" I have no complaints just the opposite, she's a ripper mill, just a pity the wind isnt as reliable as the mill 
Luck favours the well prepared |
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| Janne Senior Member Joined: 20/06/2008 Location: FinlandPosts: 121 |
I think Gordon is right this time to nag about it .. Your original statement is really as clear as mud. True, anyone with some experience will be able to tell, that 1.5kWh/Day is propably the right answer, but for anyone with less experience he will be just more confused. So for the sake of "newbies", let's stick to the correct units, when it comes to energy(kWh) and power(kW). It is also true that it really annoys me when people use the wrong units If at first you don't succeed, try again. My projects |
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| DTMC Newbie  Joined: 12/02/2010 Location: Posts: 11 |
Maybe it is incorrect, okay, but the corrections are pedantic and only serve to derail yet another thread. Cheers |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Hi Crew, My take on this ,,, What started out as a nice fresh return by Phill M with some really nice new gear , turns into a "Gillard-Abbott" style bun fight over a guys good intentions. Please think before you jump in and try to steal someone's posting.. Keep it up and you'll surely "self-destruct" this great forum. Please. Bruce Bushboy |
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oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
I'm thinking Bruce, Now you bring it up. This is as DIY as a new car. It should be in classifieds, or Ebay. I'm not sure the thread needs to be here in windmills. This type of thing is what will self destruct the forum. Discussing favorite manufactured products is not DIY,( where a lot of other renewable sites fall down) and I fail to see the merit in this helping others to build anything..... where's the challenge in that? Where is the DIY in that, and where is the "backshed" in that (maybe storage until you stick it up). I see this as a different animal, here he appears to be fronting for another Chinese mill manufacturer (who seems a very nice fellow by the way), and this place is just being used for soft sell through the back door. I understand it, but am not enamored by it. It should be in classifieds. When some are sold, and the OWNERS (not the salesman) have repaired for fixed or modified usefully in any way, or has questions regarding fixing it etc, then it is time for the windmill section to get a run. ...........oztules (wondering if this is how to make friends and influence people?) Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Thanks Oz,, Actually I was "not-on" about Phill"s selling. I sort of was trying to settle the guys trying to correct each other on something that was not absolutely correct(Kwh,Kw, per day ,per hour you know).. but, you do make a very good point,I'll leave it at that. Bruce Bushboy |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Phill did contact me before posting this thread to see if it was OK. As Phill will be sharing his fixes and modifications to this commercially available windmill, even though he is also the supplier, I figured it was good to go. The fixes and modifications Phill will be sharing can be applied to many other windmill types, like the F&P, other Chineese imports, even the axials. I'll talk more about it later tonight when I'm not at work. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Oztules, I was wondering how long it would be before you steped in as the self appointed " Judge " of how we all should be going about our one common intrest and hobby, that being the enjoyment of " Producing Your Own Power " from a wind mill , solar , or other means . It seems that if we are all not taking your advice to " Chainsaw Our Blades " make our own current measurment devices , building and programing a logger from start to go , then we should not be allowed to be appart of this forum. If any one decides to go off your chosen path then they seem to get a "HAZED" scalding of words . "YES I AM" the supplier of these kits , Do other suppliers of windgenerators come out and say that what they are selling has a lot of Design Faults and you need to do this,this and this to make it work like it should, to get and better the power output for which it was designed and priced for . I get enquiries and sales for the Aluminium Blades from people all over the world , and Australia and please remember that the design concept origionally evolved from here . Whether it is an option to buy or make their blades that a person makes themselves , as is with to either buy or build a windgenerator, these decisions are for the individual and if it is economicially viable to buy rather than build and you end up with something that is possibly better than the alternative , then that choice is there for the individual to make. As Glenn said , I did talk to him about my concerns with putting these kits on here as it would rattle the feathers of a few here . I tried to seperate the two posts between what needs to be done to improve these kits on the main forum and the selling and pricing to the For Sale section to keep everyone happy , but obviously not. If the general opinion is that this is wrong then I will ask Glenn to remove all that I have to offer and I will move all items to Ebay , hopefully one day someone will post that they have bought a Chinese windmill kit that doesn't work and this is what they have done to make it work as this seems to be the correct way it has to be done . I tried to give a solution first with what knoweledge and facilities I have to be able to come up with . Making my Windgenerators perform better is what I enjoy , whether it is the Ax Fx or the F&Ps and now these Kits I will always be striving to squeeze every last watt out of them I can . If I have a vested intrest in the concern then I am sorry it upsets those here , when I added up what you get with this Kit compared to what it can cost to get a windmill up and going for a person that can not spend the time to scour the country side for scrap suitable to build there own, I thought it was good value and will allow them to have the pleasure of owning and modifing a windgenerator without a lot of the hassle of building which can be daunting . I am sorry Oz , you have had your say , I have now had mine and this is now another thread that Glenn may be forced to close or delete certain sections . PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| RossW Guru Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495 |
*sigh*. Thats why I've quit posting. The corrections are *NOT* merely pedantic. They are important, indeed CRITICAL at times, and the LESS the reader knows about the subject the MORE important accuracy in POSTS becomes. |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
As I always seem to on the wrong side of the fence on this forum I might as well say my 2.2 cents worth. 1. Just imagine how quick a thread would be taken down if any other member decided to put a thread on a DIY forum for a commercial kit ???? 2. All Oztules stated what some members have already thought and has had the balls to come out and say what other people can't..... 3. So basically the door is open now for other members to come in here with commercial kits now the precedent has been set. When I saw a new thread in the 'For Sale' section I first saw this chinese kit but with so little information I wasn't surprised to see it in the wind section. ( see my first point above) Phill, a suggestion, go make a website and put all the details on there including a shopping cart and just use this forum if needed for questions on your kits. If I ruffle feathers so what it's only my 2.2 cents worth Cheers Bryan |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Has everyone finished now? I agree, mostly, with all the views posted above. Fact is, that windmill was born through ideas and discussions posted on this web site. The boxed product out of China, while it works, has room for improvement. Phill has spent a lot of time improving the windmill based on what he has learned from this web site, and he's going to share in detail all the modifications he's made. This is no different to other stories and posts about improving the Chineese 200 watt Bergy clones, or the Air-X turbines. It just so happens one of our forum members is also the supplier. I dont have a problem with Phill selling the wind turbines on this site, and posting his fix list so anyone can modify and tune up the turbine into a excelent performer. Is it any different to the Dans from Other Power selling their completed turbines? They sell the plans, have a forum so members can discuss them, and they also sell the completed turbine. How is that different to what Phill is doing, except Phill isnt going to sell the "plans", he's giving them away. I will add I have nothing to gain from this, though I'm hoping I get to keep the wind turbine I have 
As for the other discussions about correcting the kw/kwh bit. Yes I do agree it should be corrected, so newbies dont get confused and start using the wrong units, but I also believe more "tac" is needed. Be more dilpomatic, nice, in your replies. Pretend your talking to them in person. Also, we have a excelent glossary put together by the honorable Gill, if you feel someone is using the wrong terms, refer them to it. And if you think we need to add to the glossary, just let me know and I'll update it. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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