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Forum Index : Windmills : help me find used 10kw pma motors please
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goldhunter_2 Regular Member  Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
I have been reading but this is my first post . My name is Robert I will detail some info below to avoid questions later then put my motor questions below it I am pretty handy building things but really bad at descriptions an tech info so please bear with me. I want to build some Vertical wind turbines (unlike what I have found/seen but same basic theory) I plan to build them in all aluminum . My average wind speed is 11.6 mph over the last twenty years but I live in south Fl about 5 miles inland and personally believe that number may be low for my location. What I need is two 10kw DC PMA generators or can go with five 4.5kw generators if I have to . I would like to make a base mount for the roof. Over the last two years my usage is form 1200kwh to 2800kwh per month I will say average is 1500kwh per month. I want a grid tie system with a 48 hour battery back up for power outages. I have already spoken to my local power company an city for requirements. Here is the short requirement list : 35' max height, not to produce a excess (more then I need)of more then 10kw AC, emergency disconnect beside the meter, city permits, power company application, and they pay for any extra power only once per year at whole sale cost not retail Now that you have a little insite info  I am having trouble comprehending what motor or where to source them form used (if possible) I have access to 6-7 delco alternator for both car and marine, also have 4-5 heavy duty starters, a 2 hp ac motor , a used washing machine and dryer , a old Coleman power-mate 4000 watt generator .......can I use any of these for my wind turbines?
Now The Question: What other sources can I find used 10kw PMA generator type motors that are large enough for my needs? PS: I have found a commercial sold 4.5kw PMA for $1000 but that is expensive to buy five of them would like to find a used source any help on motors would be appreciated |
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kingw Newbie  Joined: 07/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 23 |
I am not the guru of wind as many other users on this forum are (new myself), however I have heard of a few negative stories about roof mounted systems. The constant hum and vibrations from most wind turbines radiate through the house, and I have heard of damage coming from these vibrations also. Basics here. Just something to bear in mind as you experiment with different designs. Sounds like an exciting project you have going there, and as it progresses it'd be great if you shared. -kingw |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
Thanks, yes I have read some of those same things my thought was to use a A frame platform mount with rubber bushing like we use building airboat engine mounts for the same type of vibration issues but it is not set in stone so to speak until after my protyo type is done and I will build a small simulated roof to mount and test at 70mph, 80mph and 100mph sustained wind speeds ( we do some wind testing for a company so I already know my boats rpms to produce these wind speeds) its all a step by step process at least for me , right now I have to find some good 10kw generators any good leads on source for used 10kw PMA's ? what types of things are this size pma's normally used in ? |
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GWatPE Senior Member  Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
I know that "Siemens & Honneywell" make some good sized windmills. LOL As a first step, you should consider the power that you really need, not just the power to replace what you currently use. Your house monthly consumption maximum is close to my house yearly consumption. Do you have a breakdown of where the power is used? Once this is done, you can work out what is essential, and then the windmill to perform the task becomes more manageable. Gordon. PS: The battery to give worse case scenario of 48h of 80kWh per day, needs to be a capacity of at least 200kWh. I have seen OFF-Grid systems with 60kWh of battery, and these were considered over the top. Chances are the peak requirements would be twice the average, so double tha 200kWh to 400kWh. become more energy aware |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
yes my monthly power consumption is higher then allot of peoples  but but I need the amount of power I use and that includes the home and all my equipment; pool pumps, lathes, mills, welders, shaker cabinets, parts washers , three compressors, power tools etc etc etc anyway you get the idea. I was being conservative with the average 1500 kwh a month
My 48hr battery back up obviously would only run the homes basic needs for power outages during hurricanes I am content with my sizing estimate for my grid tie system my question is simply where to find sources for used 10kw DC PMA generators what are some of the things they are normally used in? hopefully someone will know. |
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| windlight Guru  Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331 |
For your needs buy a back up generator, most wind generators are AC then converted to DC. You want to run WHAT! Stay with us and keep reading but realy, wind will only supply a small part of your requirements. The alternators and starter you mention are not suitable as they require gobs of speed well above wind turbine. Depending on your wind site a 10Kw unit would average about 1 Kw with luck. allan "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV). |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
My F&P makes now averaged for almost a month 2KW/day in average winds. Best so far is 4.62KW/day and it was windy! for a ripper setup, height of the turbine is as if not more important than the size of the mill. do you get a 5KW mill on a 90' tower or a 10KW mill on a 45' tower, i'd almost bet the outputs would be similar in anything but a coastal install where the air is smooth anyway. Big towers get kinda frightening if you are not experienced and can be very dangerous if you are complacent -think 8mm wire rope cutting you or a helper in half! Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
Wow I can't seem to get any responses on my original question of where to find or what type of things 10kw PMA where used in  
windlight, I relieze we all have different power requirements but remember I said I wanted a grid tie system (not offgrid) to supplement my power requirements I didn't think those units would be large enough though I see many people convert the alternators for smaller power needs. if I do not produce enough power at any given time I still have the local power grid. I may have to see what it will cost to have 10kw units made since apparently they are not used in anything else KarlJ, yes but because I am in a populated coastal area prone with hurricanes and tropical storms the local zoning codes only allow me to have a max tower high of 35 feet and I must have it rated to withstand 130mph hurricane wind speed I used the 11.6 mph as a 20 year average for weather service data but for example yesterday my winds where 25+mph average and guest of 36mph I had planed to start with one or two windmills and see how productive they where or if I need to add more but I know I want a larger size thus the 10kw these little alternator windmills would not come close to my requirements |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Do you realise you are asking a difficult question to give an answer to. Most of us work with what we can scrounge at hand to make a turbine out of, and you ask for a pma to handle 10kw on a vawt. To start with i think you are dreaming wanting that sort of power from a vawt given the location constraints you have, even with reasonable wind. One thing often missed with wind speed is how much of it is turbulent air as this can cut the power factor avaliable back real fast. I think on this forum if some one knew the answer to your question we would gladly tell you as we are all about sharing information. Have you considered building a AXFX to suit your needs as many cant find the pma needed, so they build their own. Have you looked at what Oztutles and Gordon have built on the forum here or checked out Fieldlines forum on designs. The reason most build their own is off the shelf items are hard to find or just not avaliable at a reasonable price. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
downwind, I just re-read my last post my apologize to everyone guess I was just a little upset that the thread keeps going to my power usage instead of the source and it showed through in my post I do realize that is a hard question but was hoping even if it was something people could find easy at least I could figure out what to look for to scrounge up some used ones myself No I had not considered AXFX or at least I don't recognize the abbreviation as something I looked at. I will have to check into that. I am not opposed to building my own as matter a fact I would rather do that but a ac/dc type motor is one thing I have not got any experience building and found the learning curve is sometimes more expensive then just buying something to begin with what is field line forum? |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
As for fieldlines forum you can find it herehttp://www.fieldlines.com/ You will find many members here also a member of fieldlines AXFX is where the magnets are attached to 2 metal plates that rotate past a set of coils you wind in copper wire and set into a disc with resin. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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Greenbelt Guru Joined: 11/01/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 566 |
goldhunter_2; The previous answers to your question have been very diplomatic in nature, perhaps the real answer to where are the cheap 10 kw PM generators? there isn't any.. Here is why. The permanent Magnet gen has no control over the amount of power it makes.up to it's design max. In periods of light loading (meaning general usage as in backup systems) it is necessary to control the output and keep the frequency constant at the same generator speed. Windmills do not run at 3000 or 3600 rpm-50/60 cycle -hz. This is why inverters are needed to connect to the power Grid. so you can forget a cheap 10 or 20 kw PM generator. Did you know that you are expecting to get 30 horsepower from your wind zone 2 with an inefficient Vertical axis turbine? 40 ft. diameter turbine on your house ? The windmills of Holland generated 5 mechanical horsepower. (746 watts = 1 electrical Horsepower) 20,000 watts / 746 = 26.8 HP. and does not include efficiency factor. If pevious replies seemed a little negative... EDIT; I notice you have edited out the original data on wind zone and now have over 10 mph average wind. Time has proven that I am blind to the Obvious, some of the above may be True? |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
Ok so you saying there is simply no commercial made PMA generator that is rated for 10kw or close to that used in anything produced world wide? and yes while I would like as "cheap" of a unit as possible that again really wasn't what I asked but rather what are they commonly used in maybe I worded something wrong but isn't that what I am asking when I ask for something rated for 10kw.... isn't the 10kw it designed max ? And yes I also realize that the horizontal is more popular then the vertical but I believe you would agree that no two systems are exactly the same as locations, wind speed, personal requirements etc etc etc ALL very for one site to another. I was not really looking to discuss my choice of systems just simply seeking knowledge on what type of commercial items originally would have used something around 10kw generator |
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Perry Senior Member Joined: 19/11/2009 Location: Posts: 190 |
Hello, To answer your actual question you can check with Clean Air Technologies. They sell a 10 kW PMA that might work for you. http://www.cleanenergytechnologies.net/commercial/commercial _10kw.html I can't imagine it costing less than $10k though. Now that I have answered your question I get to make one comment 
You do realize that a 10 kW VAWT will be so big it will crush your house, right? Perry |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
perry thanks for the answer I will check out there web site yes I realize it will be a good size unit |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
interesting the weight on there 10kw unit is only 253.5 lb that is actual liter then I had anticipated |
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| neil0mac Senior Member Joined: 26/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 210 |
Depending on the frame work under the roofing material, a couple of long(ish) 50 x 50 (75 x 75?) mm RHS bars with bracing to the pole would spread the load? (At least, you'd have (only!) to replace the rafters etc. if it did part company?) |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
ya well I have to test rate it for 130mph winds to comply with local zoning codes so if it doesn't come apart during the sustained wind speed testing I should be good to go
I figure by the time it comes apart or pulls lose what ever at winds above that I will have far bigger problems to worry about at the time if you know what I mean
I had planed steel supports under the roof tied into concrete walls of the house to provide a strong base for the roof mount platform I have in mind |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Very ambitious project. I am not sure if I would feel very comfortable with such a large machine atop my living quarters. Steel supports structure or any other means of construction it doesn't sound very safe. In general I just don't think it's a good idea. May be you could mount it atop your garage etc? Jim |
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| goldhunter_2 Regular Member Joined: 10/03/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 57 |
maybe , I mean I could still mount it to a pole type tower if I decide to but would be less structural sound IMHO |
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