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Forum Index : Electronics : ATS gen bat bank feed
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Rastus Guru  Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301 |
Hi to all,Its been ages since I last posted anything on the forum.Suffered some major set backs health wise and coming to terms with the limitations.Moved the whole family interstate as well!Work on getting power to the farm has been taken on by my brother.Instead of wind power he's opted for solar feeding into a battery bank with a stand by generator.The project is coming along nicely and is compliant.The generator can be started with an ignition switch or a remote control.When the solar panels aren't maintaining the bank,can battery bank low votage or amps be used to trigger automatic gen start up.If the bank isn't up to providing power the gen could meet the demand or charge the bank short term.The Electrician is willing to carry out installation,but not design the workings of it.I'm in the dark as to what is readily available,or how invovled the circuitry would be.The system is 48V.I hope this post will open up some healthy discussion!Kind regards Rastus see Rastus graduate advise generously |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
Great to see you are back Rastus, I knew you were moving, sorry to hear about the health. I know what it feels like to have a spanner chucked in the works, life seems to almost stop. I gotta go and earn some bread while the weather is good, I will have a chat with you when I get back home. Yahoo I have a few wiring diagrams laying around for the various setups, that bit is fairly straight forward, I find the Auto start modules with more features are far easier to live with, some generators can be pigs to auto-start. Example from Magnum start and stop settings based on: Time of day, battery State of Charge, battery voltage, high temperature, or inverter load amps. Also includes the ability to manually turn the generator ON and off, generator exercise, warm up and cool down. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Rastus Guru Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301 |
Hi Yahoo2, Thanks for the welcome back and understanding!"Make hay while the sun shines" still rings true.The auto start module sounds"just what the doctor ordered" and wiring diagrams will reduce planning/layout time considerably.The thread couldn't have started of better.Thanks, kind regards Rastus see Rastus graduate advise generously |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
Had a breakdown so I am back home till the parts turn up. Where do I start? Firstly does the bro really need to auto start the gennie?. Sometimes it is easier to charge the batteries once a week in winter (may-june) and forget about it for the rest of the year. Have you got an Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS) already installed in the system? AGS (Auto Generator Start) There is basically two types, stand alone and networked. The networked ones are usually matched to the inverter and or master controller/hub. So to install one of these you would need to plan ahead and buy all the same brand kit at once. stand alone ones have a few less functions but can be made to work with most systems provided it can start the generator. have a read of the pdf's at this link, it will give you a good feel of how it works. Auto gen start controller if the generator just has an on/off switch you are home and hosed. This is a two wire system it has its own built in starting/stop system you just tap into it with 12 Volt and ground and it starts and runs whenever it sees power on the key wire. 3 wire systems, where the starter motor needs to be triggered from the AGS. it works fine provided the AGS has a starting sequence in its list that matches what your generator needs. The only major spanners in the works are usually three things, generators with no auto choke, not enough Kw to run a charger and/or the house load, generators that cant be started or stopped under load. cheers Yahoo P.S. HO, Ho, Ho-DEE, Ho 
I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Rastus Guru Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301 |
Hi yahoo2, A temporary setback can be exstended a few exstra days waiting on delivery's this time of year.The good news is the breakdown is not terminal.My brothers commitments are changing and he will not have any spare time for the next year at least.I'm hoping he will post on this thread as it expands.I've been little to no help to him during this year and that won't change in the forseable future,so automation is his preferred option.No ATS has been obtained or installed to date.The inverter had some limited optional inclusions and he chose those that complimented his future plans for the entire system.On line monitoring capability is one of those.Thanks for the link I'll gladly follow up on it! The gen switch isn't the 2 wire system the electrician was looking for.It can be started and stopped by a remote that looks similar to an auto security remote.The output is claimed to be 8.6Kw,however we suspect it may be incorrectly labelled and possibly be 6.8Kw.I've been told it has a start up,run and cool down sequence and has an automatic choke.Start up isn't consistant using the remote.I hope these details are usefull in narrowing down the possibilities.Kind regards Rastus see Rastus graduate advise generously |
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| curiosity Newbie  Joined: 04/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 31 |
Hi yahoo2, I'm Rastus's bro.An ATS would be a necessary evil as there is no one living on site and not possible to turn on the geny once a week.I'm on site till the 4th but don't know when anyone will be there next. Thanks for the link. I've looked at magnum before but am not sure how we would bypass the remote system our generator has atm as we have no wiring diagram for it. I might just buy a magnum and take it to an auto elec to get it wired. |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
This is incredibly difficult for me. I have no idea what your system consists of or how it is set up. I can not imagine a situation where a decent sized 48 volt unattended setup would use enough power to warrant using a generator, except in the dead of winter or if you are making no effort to keep power use to a minimum. For most situations the LVD (low volt disconnect)is enough to protect the batteries till the sun gets up to recharge them. If the load on your batteries is high enough to make the system marginal with no one there, then a generator is going to be running a lot, that means some big fuel bills and potential for a lot of other problems. My suggestion to look at the magnum site was not a product recommendation, it is because they are one of the few suppliers that is still willing to have detailed wiring info posted on the web. If you can find a starting sequence in their PDF's that will work with your generator THEN you have a starting point to look for a suitable AGS. If the gennie has a key or switch and push button start, the AGS is wired in to this and you don't use the remote circuit at all. I am not totally confident you have your head around what is involved. ATS is to transfer power supply for the load from the inverter to the generator, nothing to do with charging batteries, it is purely to run a house from a generator if the alternative is not available. It is more practical with a small system to leave the inverter to manage the load and just bulk charge the batteries with the generator, preferably in the morning so the solar panels can finish the charging cycle during the day. Most small generators are not capable of running a large charger for the batteries AND powering the household load as well. If the generator will not start with the battery charger hooked up and switched on then there is another issue to deal with. Now-days I am pretty upfront and blunt with potential clients, I have a short list of inverter/generator combinations that I am prepared to quote a set price to work on and offer backup service. These are the ones that I have researched and I know will work reliably. Anything else is an hourly rate and has sometimes run into many 000'$. By the same token, I service quite a few systems that have never had to run a generator, except when I load test and equalise the batteries. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Rastus Guru Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301 |
Hi yahoo2, I'll try to provide further information and hope it gives added insight.The inverter has the potential to select between solar panels, battery bank or generator.If the battery bank is low the inverter will select the generator as the supply,my memory fails me as to wether it has an inbuilt ATS or we need an AGS to complete the function.It's unlikely for 2 solar panels to provide enough power for use but the inverter can also select to charge the battery's with them which is what we expect by default.The inverter can select generator to charge battery's as well in which case we again benefit from AGS.I'm only going by memory and it doesn't serve me well at the moment,however if adjustments are called for,I hope my brother provides them in reasonable time.The objective is to start of with essentials and develope the functions that prove viable.Kind Regards Rastus see Rastus graduate advise generously |
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| Rastus Guru Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301 |
Hi Yahoo2, The wiring diagrams while not for our specific generator,proved a helpfull starting point towards working out a usable system.Thanks for the help!Kind regards Rastus see Rastus graduate advise generously |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Hi, Do you know where you can buy one of these? Looks like the ducks nuts for what I am trying to do with an inverter charger that can tell the generator when to start but does not turn off the generator. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
Hi madness, sorry I forgot about your post. I think there is a "where to buy" link on their website that mentions the Australian distributor in the international section. They will have a list of dealers that handle their gear. The trick will be to find a dealer that knows what it is and wont charge you a huge markup for it. I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
Stupid me, just looked up, there is an Australian distributor listed with dealers all over the country. Thanks. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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