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Forum Index : Electronics : Battery brands
| Author | Message | ||||
Tim_the_bloke Senior Member  Joined: 15/11/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 105 |
I am about to buy some more batteries. Probably three 12V 200AHr deep cycle lead acid batteries for my 12V system. Trojan J185H batteries are $685 each Supreme CR-210 batteries are $450 each These are comparable in specifications, are the same size, etc. The Supreme is said to be a Trojan replacement. Both are made in USA. Supreme is much cheaper. The prices are from two local battery shops (in Castle Hill and Dural, Sydney). Does anyone have an informed opinion on Supreme batteries? |
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| Tim_the_bloke Senior Member Joined: 15/11/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 105 |
Well, ... I have googled Supreme Batteries and found positive comments and no negative warninings so I supose I will buy some of them. No comments here yet... |
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Downwind Guru  Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Its a bit hard to comment if no one has used them, and even then its a year or two, before there is any real indication on how good they are. As Mac would say, we are "hiding and watching" on your results and information. Keep us posted on your results/review. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
HI Tim The best thing I have found to judge a battery that you don't know is to find out the weight as that indicates how heavy the plates are in relation to a known battery of the same plate specs. Most battery manufactures use the same plate materials and design as that has been around for a 100 years so as long as it isn't a Friday battery it should be OK. I have bought many batteries over the last forty years and found the cheap ones last and die just as good as the expensive ones. The thing with batteries is how you look after them not how much the cost necessarily. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Tim_the_bloke Senior Member Joined: 15/11/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 105 |
Ah, you make sense. Thanks for your advice. I can research weights. |
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| Tim_the_bloke Senior Member Joined: 15/11/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 105 |
From the suppliers' specifications: Trojan J185H batteries are $685 each 127lb / 58Kg Supreme CR-210 batteries are $450 each 131lb / 59.4Kg So, the cheaper battery is actually a little heavier, therefore maybe more lead. Also, buying dearer batteries won't make me look after them better. I care for them the best I can for the remote location they are going to be installed at. I think the decision is clear. I can have 400AHr or 600Ahr for the same money. |
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oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
I don't know the Supreme, but I do know the Trojans. I'm not a big fan of the J185, and think they are a bit soft if not babied. I seem to only recall poor life in traction machines. The Trojan T105 (6v 225ah) on the other hand are probably the best bang for buck long term I have found in both business and retirement. You should be able to pick up 2 x t105's for less then the 12v supreme price, and have better batteries to boot. The T105's are world renowed as the tough ones, and I bought 6 of them recently. (electric car).. I have bought over 1000 of them previously when still in the game (traction machinery). I have never understood why the 185 series are so dear, and yet seemed so soft 
Just my thoughts on it. ...............oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Tim Oz has the experience with these batteries so good advice. The weight test works for me as I don't have the experience in traction situations that OZ does, one thing I have found over the years is that the advertised amp hour of batteries apart from very large deep cycle batteries is overstated and most of the so called deep cycle batteries in small case format will die very quickly if you discharge more than 50% of rated capacity, and that's over a 10 hour period. so calculate your daily requirements and at least double the amps. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| oztules Guru Joined: 26/07/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1686 |
I had a chuckle at the weight test Bob, and I can see the point. But in the longer term, it is not the mass of lead that counts, it is keeping it where it is supposed to be that counts... no good on the floor, or not taking part in the redox reactions for some other proximity reason. Time has moved on on me I'm afraid, but trojan for a good time had tight control of their patents. These revolved around the technology of how they kept the lead where it was supposed to be. I never went into it, because the T105 was a clear winner in the field over most others (Alco seemed a close second) The other t125, t145 didn't seem to take quite the same punishment, yet shared the same heritage, as would the J185.... but in the rough and tumble of errant owners, the 105's seemed to do better.... I have no sensible explanation. Maybe the ratio of plates to volume or something else I don't pretend to know..... they just seemed to have hit the sweet spot with the 105's Some owners (tiny minority) did swear by the 145's, but they were disproportionately dearer, for not many more AH.(they required more run time than was sensible, so they died earlier than they should have perhaps) Lots tried cheaper and dearer solutions, but nearly always came back to the 105's as the best value for money and longevity. Anecdotal evidence on a lot of off grid living sites I have wandered over seem to reflect this same conclusion. I'm not certain this is still true, but up until I left the commercial world of traction machinery, it was, and they still seem to hold a coveted spot in off gridders hearts.... (if I were to go off grid I would go for the Trojan 2v 500ah units myself). Your mileage may vary. .........oztules Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Oz I agree wholeheartedly with what you say about keeping the lead on the plates not as a sludge in the bottom of the cell, that's why I am always talking about desulphation of the battery, as it is an unfortunate fact that we can kill batteries by our usage pattern by depending on the battery to give more than is good for its health, discharging below 50% on small case batteries will destroy them quickly. desulphating by a continuous application will help prevent the build up of sulphate, and prevent the boil the battery to desulphate the battery that has become popular, all it does is rip the sulfates of the plate and send them to the sludge in the bottom of the cell, lead lost, instead of reconverting the sulphate to its original state. By our use of batteries as off the grid systems and traction batteries we are asking more of the battery than is good for it, and at times we whip the dead horse by trying to use power that's no longer there, over discharge, even with batteries that are designed for these abuses it drastically shortens their life. The point of the weight method of assessing a unknown battery is to see what you start with, but what you end up with in terms of general operation depends on what we do to the battery in terms of use and maintainence. Until we can come up with a better price effective way of storing energy we are stuck in the horse and cart age of lead acid batteries so their care and feeding is important. My original EV was powered by batteries that would no longer start my earth moving equipment reliably, they where desulphated continuously by a thing I made up from a vibrator out of a old valve type car radio, after six months they had returned to nearly full capacity much to my amazement and lasted a number of years after that. So ever since then I have been a firm believer in the process, its not the be all and end all but it sure helps. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| Tim_the_bloke Senior Member Joined: 15/11/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 105 |
I have installed the 3 batteries (Supreme CR-210). I also shouted myself a desulphator from Jaycar/Electus which I added to the old battery bank. In a few more weeks I should know how everything is performing. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Tim We await further developments. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| danielhenry31 Newbie  Joined: 29/06/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 5 |
Most batteries made with materials and design basis has been around for 100 years, if the battery is not a Friday, it should be fine. I bought several batteries in the past forty years and has found the latest economic and die as good as expensive. The thing with the batteries, the way the question is not necessarily what it takes. portable battery charger |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Dan What are you up to using some of my entries and changing them a bit, is it to promote your link to your commercial site or are you just playing around. Bob Foolin Around |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
danielhenry31, Yes if you are going to copy and mess with other peoples postings, to promote you have a web site and want to flog your products, then you WILL NOT last long on this forum. You have done this at least 3 out of your 5 posts to date from what i have seen. Doing these sorts of things is the same as SPAM from our point of view. I surgest you adjust your behavour if you wish to remain a member. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
This is getting things out of control and There is a Dump up the road. Dwyer  |
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| Tim_the_bloke Senior Member Joined: 15/11/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 105 |
Waking up an old thread... As per the above request, here are results, a few years later. This bank of 3 x 12V 210Ahr batteries is starting to fail. Is seven years an acceptable lifetime for deep cycle batteries? |
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yahoo2 Guru Joined: 05/04/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1166 |
It will depend on how much use you got out of them. I chucked your numbers into my battery spreadsheet and assumed that you had drawn them down 30% per day. gives a total of 5749 kwh at 23.5 cents per kwh that's not to bad at all. you would get closer to 12 years out of the best quality batteries with a higher daily draw, but this is also offset by the higher price so there might be a couple of cents in it. I have seen a lot of batteries in the 30-80 cents per kwh range I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not... |
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