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Forum Index : Electronics : China inverter boards
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| BenandAmber Guru  Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
Hello everyone excited to be a member I've been reading this site over yr now and have got inspired to go off grid I have already bought over fifty 330 watt solar pannels I have 8 145 amp hr AGM batteries and I'm trying to get another eight I have 52 lb. Toroid transformer on the way all of this will eventually be for my 40 foot coach we plain to live full time in I am not sure what board to go with open to any suggestions and would like to know what ya think about this board. https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32908034818.html?spm=a2g0n.store-products.0.0.47d7713cVMbTnm I'm not sure if this link is right but it's the 24 mosfet h y 4008 8 large capacitors and esg002 it's $173 it's the big red board at 48v it's supposed to be good for 10,000 Watts the toroid that I ordered is 5000 watt 120 the high side and 26 volt on the low side I was hoping by going big it will be more reliable I don't think I will ever be pushing any more than three or four thousand Watts and whatever I do I am definitely uploading all the details to here so other people can learn and be inspired just like you guys have inspired me I appreciate you guys accepting me as a member and would greatly appreciate any info and advise you guys could give me be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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poida Guru Joined: 02/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1419 |
Hi BenandAmber I have not used that particular board. I have used the following board with good results. this one I add some extra components and perform some modifications. This makes them bullet proof. mods: on the EGS002 module, remove the opamp. this prevents any over current shutoff. The OC shutoff design is such that it can shut off and re-enable within a few 10s of microseconds. This is a bad thing in my view. Over current protection is obtained by adding a 60A DC contact breaker on the supply. These boards can deal with huge over current for short periods. On the EGS002 pull a certain resisitor and cut a track. I will provide details if you want. Again, this is part of the "remove all over current shutoff" effort. Next, get some 18V TVS (transient voltage suppressors), you need 4. Connect them to the low and high side gates of both V1 and V2 (the 1/2 bridge outputs that go to the transformer) you will need a large ferrite E core choke. There is no argument in this respect. Get, from RS components, a E70/33/30 core, with a 1mm gap. put about 4 or 6 turns through it. you need about 45uH choke that does not saturate at 100A or more. (just about all here on this board will quibble about size, inductance and turns, cable size etc...anyway, onward and upward) I am running an inverter that uses the above board, a 45uH E core as described, with TVS protecion on both high and low side gates for the 2 1/2 bridges It is bullet proof. It will not die. It suffers large transient loads without smoke and explosions. My transformer is from an Aerosharp 3kVA grid tie inverter. It is a toroid type. It has a 240V AC RMS winding. This means it does not saturate at 240V AC RMS. Saturation occurs at about 260V, again it is a matter of degree and opinion. with my 48V battery, I need about 26 turns for the primary winding. I use 4 wires, each 6mm squared area. This means about 24mm2 area primary. In my use at home, I only need to run 1500W continuous. The inverter can run 2500W no problems. I have blown up these boards when using iron core chokes, with about 45-90uH measured inductance. And when I do not add the TVS protection on the gates of each of the 4 legs of the full bridge. I recall the iron cored inductors seem to be OK but they are very low inductance with high frequencies. High freqs are the major power component of the 24kHz PWM... So we sometimes have problems. Also, I am developing a theory that we must, under every circumstance, protect the gate drive IC outputs from voltages outside the specs. IR (the makers of the gate drive IC) say no more than +Vdd (IC supply voltage) and no less than -0.3V on the gate drive outputs. The TVS diodes deliver this limitation and can deal with appreciable current. Other's here will chime in, no doubt. This is how I do it now, after failures due to poor high freq choke inductance and a lack of gate drive output protection. Have a go and see how you go. What's to loose, only a few electrons.. wronger than a phone book full of wrong phone numbers |
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| azhaque Senior Member  Joined: 21/02/2017 Location: PakistanPosts: 117 |
Hi Poida, What a coincidence! I have just finished making an inverter using the chinese inverter board that you have described above. Photos of the homebrewed inverter are given in another thread (https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11134&PN=1 see page-2) on this forum. I tried the unit the first time today. The test was unsuccessful. The voltage drops to 161 volts as soon as the wires are connected to the house wiring into the fusebox. Reading your response above indicates to me the mistake I have made. My inverter does not have the high frequency choke installed. The webpage of the inverter board indicates that in case of E-I cores such a choke is not required. However I think it may not be possible to operate the inverter without it. I will now make amends as suggested by you in your post above. Thanks and regards azhaque |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
I really appreciate the advice and I will definitely be taking it I am a little bit slow I have a little bit of a learning disability so it might take me a little while to study everything that you said but I really really really appreciate it also wanted to let everyone on this form no if there's anything I can do to help anyone please let me know if I can obtain something easier here in the United States and ship to someone or any way I can help I do have a friend that owns a recycling center lot of stuff come through there so if I need to be on the lookout for something for someone just let me know be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
I have 6 or 7 smaller compared to what you guys on here used to use in any way toroidal Transformers they are a little over four and a half inch wide a little over 2 inches tall Center hole is a little over one and three quarter inch the primary is a hundred and ten 60 hertz and the secondaries are 2 24 volts I think they're like 250 VA but they seem heavier bigger isn't that to me anyway I would like to donate these for someone to do something cool with they were made in 2013 and I'm pretty sure there are a very high quality if the shipping isn't too much I would even pay the shipping to ship them to some one I remember reading somewhere about a inverter that takes several smaller toroids the anyway would love to see somebody do something with them the only things I require is that you post whatever you do with them I really enjoy reading about the different projects you guys do on here if anyone needs any more information just let me know I want to try to find some way to weigh them they seem pretty heavy to me no maybe 5 lb be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
Hey POIDA I have a 52 pound 5000 watt Transformer on the way and was hoping to be able to run at 4000 watt continuous without getting hot or blowing anything up I want a my inverter to be bulletproof like you're talkin about do you think if I did the same mods on a different but similar bored I would have that same outcome as you or will the board you have do 4000w continuous the big red board I was looking at is on the same link that you're bored is on the only reason I was going with the bigger one was the cost of the capacitors and I thought bigger might be tougher I'm definitely wanting to do those diodes I read the Wikipedia on them and it makes really really good sense well thanks for any advice you can give me be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| poida Guru Joined: 02/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1419 |
"do you think if I did the same mods on a different but similar board I would have that same outcome as you " Yes, I think it would be similar. You need to disable the over current circuitry though. Why? When over current condition exists, even for a short time like 1/100 of a second, the board switches off. Then it switches on again, probably after about 1/100 of a second. This rapid switching on and off is bad. We have shown these boards can deal with large current spikes easily, just as long as we don't switch them on and off rapidly from the over current system. I build my inverters with a large DC contact breaker, in series with the DC supply. This is to protect my battery and switches and wiring, as well as to limit the current draw from the inverter. I am OK with the inverter dealing with large but short term current spikes on it's own. The board you picked out in the first post here is a larger power one which I have not used. It looks fine to me for this job. Maybe we need to get a few things worked out now before I get too caught up in this. What is the battery you have? Is it 48V? And what is the capacity of the battery? What output voltage do you want, 110V or 240V Are you experienced with working with dangerous high voltages and currents? wronger than a phone book full of wrong phone numbers |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
My battery voltage will be 48 volt I have eight 12 volt 145 amp hour AGM batteries now brand new and I'm planning on getting another 8 matching brand new ones 16 in total I am a retired electrician and Universal certified HVAC before that I ran heavy equipment in Coal Mines I know just enough about Electronics to get myself in a big mess my inverter output is going to be 110volts I ordered a troidl Transformer of ebay it is on it's way it is 110volt and 26volt it is out of a hydrogen generator inverter and it weighs 52 lb I have also ordered a inductance meter it should be on its way also other than that I just have a multimeter multimeter as amperage clamp on it thanks again for replying I appreciate all the advice I can get because I'm sure I am in over my head but I am very determined and I will be disconnecting the overcurrent when I get my board and after I figure out how to do it and I will be ordering a 100 amps DC breaker for in between my battery Bank and the inverter or maybe 90 amp if I can find one unless you tell me that's wrong size me and a friend of mine when half on 125 damaged 330 Watt solar panels not sure how many of them I'm going to be able to use yet I have already bought one 60 amp make sky blue mppt charge controller it's already arrived sorry so long that's a lot to read but now you know exactly what's going on thanks again for trying to help me be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
Free to good home treadmill motor 2.75 hp 130volts dc 2.0 hp continuous. 100volts dc 1492 watts very good condition almost new I have motor controller also so you can plug it into the wall and push the different speed buttons but you better be holding on to the motor pretty tight it will get away from you I may help on shipping or pay all shipping also I just ask that you put your project on here for all of us to read thanks again to everybody be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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wiseguy Guru Joined: 21/06/2018 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1156 |
Hi Poida, Im worried this may look like a dreaded quibble but it is really just a confirmation request. Having just re visited inductor design and working through a few examples something does not feel quite right - and I would appreciate your feedback. My tables show an E70/33/30 core as having an Al value around 650-800 for a 1mm gap depending on core material. I am using L = N x N x Al using the 6 turns above only yields ~ 28uH. So am I doing something wrong or is it possible there are 7 or 8 turns on your choke? I haven't considered flux density at this point. Most of my calculated chokes end up in the 8 - 12 uH region - I am not saying this is the correct real world value just a calculated value still to be tried & confirmed. Lastly what ampere turns did you find at the onset of saturation for that core ? If at first you dont succeed, I suggest you avoid sky diving.... Cheers Mike |
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LadyN Guru Joined: 26/01/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 408 |
Thats impressive! Where did you get them from and what's the specs? Is this the same one as above? In that case I would really appreciate a link so I can check it out :) Welcome and that's a wonderful gesture! Have you read these: https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11087 https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11086 That is fantastic! I am on the lookout for EI and/or Toroid transformers. Just the transformers or GTIs with such transformers in them would be very helpful. First off, I want to get started with this project: https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11108 Do you want to work with me on that? |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
ladyN me and my wife has sent you a p.m. I hope we done it right if not you can see on here that I am going to go get the Transformers weighed and check on shipping cost this my take couple days if shipping is less than 30 bucks we will cover it and it makes us very happy to see another young person actually building something can't wait to see what you do with them. best of luck Ben an amber be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| LadyN Guru Joined: 26/01/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 408 |
Ben! Got it! VERY generous. Let's hope it all works out! Remaining below: Thats impressive! Where did you get them from and what's the specs? Is this the same one as above? In that case I would really appreciate a link so I can check it out :) Welcome and that's a wonderful gesture! Have you read these: https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11087 https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11086 That is fantastic! I am on the lookout for EI and/or Toroid transformers. Just the transformers or GTIs with such transformers in them would be very helpful. First off, I want to get started with this project: https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11108 Do you want to work with me on that? |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
Hopefully I can get them weighed tomorrow and get the shipping cost I will try my best I live very close to the post office but just getting the time to run down there I have a few of those little square modules that output power when one side it's cold and the other side is hot I ordered them and was going to do a little project with my son with them but he's just not interested send you a few of those too if you would like people on YouTube are making cell phone chargers out of them the uses couple of Soup cans put a candle in the bottom one with a bunch of holes poked in the can and put water in the top 1 and put the little square module in between them and that outputs power small voltage of course but they say it's enough to charge his cell phone be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
If anyone else has messed with these Chinese inverter boards please chime in sorry I got off topic a little bit I just really enjoy getting everybody's input on almost every topic since I'm a little bit new to all this all of it excites me can't wait to be off to grid be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
 This is the board I plan on using be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
 This is my 52 lb 5000 VA Transformer I will be using be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
 be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| BenandAmber Guru Joined: 16/02/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 961 |
 This is one of those Transformers that was talked about previously Lady M decided they were too small for her I think there are around 250 VA if anybody wanted one they would have to figure out what shipping company they wanted to use for the cheapest price and I would help with that if somebody needed one one of these would probably work with warpspeeds inverter design with three of these you could probably have your Transformer for two stages of the four that he talks about I could be misunderstanding that though or maybe one of these could have a thin cut made in it and use for a big choke who knows that be up to whoever wants one be warned i am good parrot but Dumber than a box of rocks |
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| azhaque Senior Member Joined: 21/02/2017 Location: PakistanPosts: 117 |
Poida. In your inverter mentioned above, is the input voltage being fed back connected to the output transformer secondary, or is there an intervening isolation transfo in between the input terminals and the main transformer secondary. Looking at other examples on aliexpress, one finds that there are similar boards that have a small transformer on the board (see image copied below)  Are you using something like this intervening/isolation transformer? TIA azhaque |
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