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Forum Index : Electronics : Aldi Glass Mat Battery 12V 32A - good for UPS?
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| domwild Guru  Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Hi, Those glass mat batteries may have sold out by now for $100 each (from memory), but are not the type UPSs are normally associated with as they are supposed to be SLAs. 1. As Aldi may sell them again in the future,is the charging regime similar between SLAs and AGMs or must I forget that idea? 2. It mentioned "Deep Cycle" on the batt., but did not give an Amphr figure, just 12V 32A, is this worrying? Am I wasting my money here as I have to buy three, my UPS is 36V? 3. When I last played with that UPS, I used three lead/acid ones and switched the batteries in first and then the mains. I was advised this is the correct sequence as I otherwise have magic smoke. Was not explained to me why, can you help? Thanks. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Straight from the horse's mouth: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm Probably not a huge difference between AGM and SLA in a UPS application I would think. The main thing to watch is that recharging must be very slow and carefully carried out with either type. Gassing must be avoided at all costs. They are sold as "sealed" batteries, but that is not strictly true. Excessive internal pressures are relieved through venting, but every time the battery vents some of the electrolyte is lost. As topping up with water is not possible, the venting problem and drying out is the main cause of death with any sealed type of lead acid battery. So if recharging is aggressive, the battery can quickly dry out and its life will be over. So ideal for standby operation where very long slow recharging times are not a disadvantage. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Depending on the quality of the UPS, you can get into the software and change various parameters including charge rates, float voltage etc. usualy this is done Via a Rs 232 or network socket on the back of the unit. The larger the capacity the more I have found they are customisable. There are 2 basic types of Inverter, online and line interactive. Line interactive is the cheaper topology normaly used in small domestic type units. The power goes straight through from the mains to the appliance and the batteries are only involved when the mains fails other than being charged/ Floated. The line active type is basically a charger for the batteries and an inverter to the load. The batteries are always in circuit. This gives these types of inverter the ability to " Cold Boot" meaning you can hold the button and they will fire up with no mains input. The line interactive types need to see mains power before they will boot. I have and have used both types for a range of applications, few of them having anything to do with computer power backup at home. The line interactive types can boot from a regular inverter and then go to battery power but much better to have the line active types ( there is another name for them as well I now forget) particularly like I was out in the field. I had mine hooked to a couple of N200 deep cycle batteries and could run the loads I had all day and still not be over draining them. For longer/ heavier Runs I made up a generator with a 5 HP motor on a 100A 24V alternator and used to run that either intermittently or constantly. The nice thing about this setup was I could throttle back the engine to just give the power I needed rather than having the thing screaming away when I was only using a 1/4 of the output. Most of the time I used to Fire the thing up in the middle of the day and give the batteries a bulk charge then give them another run when we were packing up and then I'd just put them on a charger when I got the trailer back home. These days If I was doing the same thing I'd have a KW of solar panels set up and could probably get away without the generator a lot of the time. I never worried about which way I connected the things up, Mains or batteries first but some of the interactive ones will go to alarm and not boot at all without batteries connected. I'm thinking I might try to find some shot car batteries and set up a solar array going back tot he batteries and a UPS for this summer. Batteries wont need to hold charge as much as voltage to be a "Ballast " of sorts for the UPS. I reckon there are going to be a LOT of blackouts in places there weren't before. Better pull my finger out and get the 12Hp Diesels I bought hooked to a genny as well. |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
One thing to look out for when using extended run times with an UPS inverter, is that many have inadequate heatsinking for extended run times, they are design to run just long enough to shut down safely for many of the 'consumer' level devices, and when adding extra battery capacity, if the inverter is run near it's limits, it may overheat, sometimes destructively.... |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
^^^ Makes sense. Thinking of what I have seen inside the number I have opened, I don't remember seeing much heat sinking as you point out. OTOH, They have all had pretty strong fans. One I had we used to have a Name for due to the sound of the fans in the thing spooling up like a jet engine. I have never had the overheating problem but thinking back, I always did by happy co-incidence run a much bigger UPS than was needed for the load. I also used to run multiple units in case one failed so everything didn't go down. Perhaps something like running them at half load is a good way to avoid this problem? Thanks for Pointing it out, never thought of it before but I'll keep it in mind in future. |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Thanks for the help and the link to the "BatteryUniversity". Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
I've a few UPS ,no batteries, have been sitting around for years ,mainly in the 1 to 1.5Kw range . I have been thinking , as they are all 48 volt , could I convert a couple to become ok for inverters??. In the past ,I have disconnected the buzzer ,either by the keypad or actually snipping one lead to the buzzer. I've put a current meter on them and they all are fairly well within the 25-45 watt range. Most of them are "APC' . Is there a possibility that the inverter board is able to be used in project where I could use my old rewound toroidal tranny --Ummm, got me thinking ... Bruce Bushboy |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Just saying.... All the small APC inverters I have had have been 24 Volt. They generally use the 7 Ah SLA brick batterys. These are usually series/ paralleled to give 24V@ 14 Ah. I don't know what you have exactly but my suggestion would be if you don't know for sure what the voltage is, just check the battery configuration. you might have a different series to what I have seen and they are indeed 48V but I know a Lot of the ones have seen, even up to 3KW APC's have been 24. The small ones I had were all 4 battery units but they were in fact 24V into the machine. Might be something to confirm before you think of them for any thing else and to be sure of the input as counting the batteries may be deceptive. |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Yeah, they sure are 48 and I've two that are 96 volts. most have the 7 Ah batts. fairly big compartment for the batteries-take that away and you have a skinny pub and thats about it. APC,SOLA LIEBERT and EMERSON. had them for 20 years (I think) . would be interesting if my rewound toroidal would be adaptable some how ???. From an old powerstar W7 48 volt inverter. anyone have powerstar junk laying around or a workshop manual. Bruce Bushboy |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Not directly related to this thread, but why don't you buy one of these batteries instead, third of the price...  800Ahrs for only $38!!! Bargain!!!! '  'Keep your UPS running for days!!!! Edited 2019-10-08 20:52 by Boppa |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
Got to love Chinese marketing? advertising/ promotional complete and utter bullsh*t.  They love to attach big numbers to anything with absolute ZERO regard for their actual relevance to the product or truth. There is SO much fake crap on fleabay it's beyond a joke. 18650 batteries are another one. Panasonic who is a leading manufacturer can only get about 3.8 I think it is Ah out of that size cell. Seen Chinese sellers advertising their cells as being 10 and 12 Ah. Small portable stereos have enough power to out do a rock concert at Wembley stadium, Pocket torches have beams that would outdo the finest WWII searchlights, Small pumps can empty a swimming pool in minutes, petrol pumps could drain a major Dam in an hour and 80mm computer fans in a housing you put on your air inlet in your car can give it 10PSI and 200Hp boostwhile getting 56% better fuel economy. OF course that fan is $129 Bucks! Must be a lot of people on mind altering Drugs in china! Or con men. Edited 2019-10-09 00:40 by Davo99 |
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| Boppa Guru Joined: 08/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 814 |
Even better- 900Ahrs!!!  Soon we will be able to run the entire world off a single USB powerbank!!!  |
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| Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1578 |
The energy Crisis is solved! even now, every home could have panels and a battery box the size of a small esky and run for a week! Factories and Businesses will need a garden shed to put them in and will be fine. Someone tell the climate protestors they can stop disrupting the trains and gluing themselves to the road now, the world is saved! |
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