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Forum Index : Electronics : Sourcing 8010’s
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renewableMark Guru  Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
Hey guys, after 6 months of smooth sailing I have had no end of trouble lately. What it has been put down to is erratic behaviour of 8010 chips. I had the machine in test safe mode today with no caps and being fed by resistance power. Three different 8010's gave different waves, no humming. 3 other ones all gave crap waves and made the machine hum. I took one of the crap ones out and put it back in again and the machine started up all on it's own with the on off switch in the off position. So who has had a machine running reliably long term and where did you get your chips? (Hopefully those sellers still source them from the same place) One thing I have noticed is the crap ones have the large EG printed above the smaller print like these AND some A hole sellers are clearly aware of this and they cover up that in their pics, you can see some doctor the pic, but if you look closely you can see it's been covered up like here And here Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Are you telling us that you removed a chip and plugged it back in while there was power to the board? Or did you mean you swapped the whole control board while power was at the PCB plugs? Mark, the usual safe procedure is to turn the inverter off with the on/off switch, disconnect it from the battery, discharge the big capacitors safely and then, *only then* swap boards etc. After you have connected all together again, and triple checked it (important  ), then you re connect inverter to battery bank via soft charge resistor. Unless you have a 'cap fully charged LED', like I have, its best to measure all voltages at this time.Then, and only then, you switch it back on. It should soft start even if some AC load is connected. If it soft starts by its own without you operating the 'on' switch, check the switch and its connections. Any faulty EG8010 I ever had (died from a 'bang' event) refused to start the inverter. You may want to swap the driver chips too, they are not 'bang' immune but seem to take a lot more punishment with the totem pole gate drive. The latter has usually a blown transistor and diode or two if it was a decent 'bang'. This might explain why I mount the totem pole transistors on screw terminals too .One of the reasons I built the little test inverter, it makes checking the EG8010 chips on their carrier easy and eliminates the dud ones. I always assemble a few of these little carrier boards to have spares handy. Klaus |
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| johnmc Senior Member  Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282 |
Good day Mark My inverter has been running well for months now. the Eg8010 chips look like your crap chips I bought them from "Best Market Place" store april 2018 do not know how to bring their aliexpress site up, cheers john johnmc |
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| renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
Tinker, I took the machine back to safe test mode. Removed large caps and small brown one from power board. Fed the Pos line via 2x 33 ohm resistors. In this configuration anything can be broken but you can't blow the machine up. What I did was the power was still connected (via resistors), the on/off toggle switch was in the off position, 8010 board was swapped and it started all on it's own while the toggle was in the off position. Yes under normal circumstances you are correct the power should be drained from the entire system before swapping boards, but while in safe test mode it can't blow anything up so that wasn't done. If it had been done that way this anomaly wouldn't have been picked up. And yes new 2010 chips were put in, they were from the same batch that ran the machine flawlessly for 6 months, I have plenty of them, so swapped them for another set just to be sure, but same results. One other thing is the scope results look identical from the 2010 test points for square and spwm, but there must be some minute difference that my scope just can't pick up. The results with the different 8010's is repeatable, three work ok, while 3 are total crap, but all 2010 test points look the same. What I mean by total crap is that they do in fact make a sine wave but it's not as smooth and makes the machine hum, on each turn on they can also produce slightly different waves, 3 do that and 3 don't (different suppliers) Mad is sending some 8010's from his batch that are currently running his machine. John, thanks for the info and glad to year of your trouble free status. Another thing that concerned me was some chips get sent stickytaped to a bit of cardboard, others are in their sealed plastic anti static packaging. Like this Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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| noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 513 |
Last batch i bought off these blokes was great... eg8010 I think it works !! |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Don't really know, but just speculating.... Putting big resistors into the dc supply will certainly limit any fault current, but it will also put a lot of noise voltage onto the supply to the control board. Could it be that the +5v to the 8010 (and possibly the +12v dc supply) has a lot of noise on it ? If the software is continuously crashing it can do some really weird stuff. Try powering at least the +5v from a 9v battery and separate 5v regulator that is not connected to the main +48v in any way, and see if that helps. Cheers, Tony. |
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| renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
I got the chips from Mad that he has been running. This is it with full power but no caps. No wobble with the voltage like the others. Will fit the big caps and re test.  Very frustrating that your success is dependant on quality control from unknown sources. I still can't see the difference in the signals coming from the 2010 test points, there has to be something. Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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| Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
I do recall having startup problems with series resistors (1x33R) in the power line. Maybe 2x33R in parallel works, have not tried that. Just out of curiosity, how do you remove and replace those big capacitors on the mad board? Looks like a tricky solder job , have you wished you had screw terminal caps yet  When you get it running again, and I'm sure you will, let this inverter do its job powering the house. Then, build another one or two to play with and try different ideas on. Tony's inverter is something I considered, even have enough toroid cores to build it here now but that lookup table thing and associated programming makes me hesitate to tackle it. But then, I did manage to get the ozinverter type running without fully understanding back then what makes it tick. Poida's posts were a big help there. Klaus |
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poida Guru Joined: 02/02/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1419 |
I don't think it's the EG8010 chip provenance. I suspect there is a problem elsewhere, probably the gate drive ICs or the system power supply. You want to come over with the control board and we verify it's all good? This weekend I'm making some beer so I am home. We could make some adapter to drive the badly abused victim test inverter on my bench with your driver board. Things might become clear when we do this. wronger than a phone book full of wrong phone numbers |
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| renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678 |
Poida, you're a top bloke mate, unfortunately I'm busy as hell this weekend. Maybe next weekend? BTW do you need any coopers bottles, I have a shed full. Power supply, hmm didn't think of that. I'll go right through all the connections when I have time. Maybe try another ribbon cable too. I don't think it's the drive chips, they got replaced twice. The results are repeatable with the different 8010's though, all will run the machine, but waves are different.3 good 3 not so good have different waves and then one Gary sent is different again. That would be very interesting indeed to see you test them on your scope, I certainly wont throw the dud ones out. Tinker, I just put some SMD flux on there (a trick Poida showed me) hit it with a big solder iron and they come off in about 3 seconds, it's a big iron that covers both pins at the same time, good for big connections on the back of the board too. Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
That had me stumped for a while too. Would you like a pre programmed EEPROM to play with ? Cheers, Tony. |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
My thoughts too. Cheers, Tony. |
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