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Forum Index : Windmills : F&P 36 pole decogged are just better
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DaveP68 Senior Member  Joined: 25/11/2014 Location: New ZealandPosts: 292 |
Having tested every version of F&P stator ever made, in my opinion the 36 pole factory decogged copper stator with a black rotor cap is the best all round unit. Today I finally did a pole twist on a couple of 42 pole stators to check how much this reduced their cogging effect. The 42's with twisted poles still have more than twice the cogging of any 36 pole factory decogged stator. Another reason why the 36 has less cogging is it has 6 less pole count and that makes an additional difference. This matters if you live a in lower wind area as the W/hrs of accumulated power will be greater if the turbine can start at a lower wind speed. Also as I've mentioned on other topics they output 40% more power for the same RPM so that means a larger blade diameter can be used without going into saturation. This also results in a much larger amount W/hrs of accumulated power output. A third aspect of how 36 pole stators are better is they can be wired into more combinations i.e. 12x 1p, 2x 6p, 3x 4p 4x 3p, 6x 2p or 12x 1p. A 42 pole stator can only be wired as 1x 14p, 2x 7p, 7x 2p or 14x 1p. I'm currently involved in a turbine build that is very close to being finished to prove all the testing done will validate everything said above. There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :) |
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| kitestrings Senior Member Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102 |
Hi Dave, I've enjoyed trying to follow most of your testing, and more generally this forum. I have no direct experience with F&P stators - I dunno there might be one in me dishwasher (a F& P brand)or clothes washer - they appear to be much more prevalent in NZ. My question is, are there other applications where F&P stators are used in other more robust applications, where it might be a larger diameter unit? I've generally been of the opinion that the easiest way to get more power from a turbine is to simply increase the rotor diameter. Here you seem to be limited to around ~1-1.5 kW, though I think fillm, perhaps others, have designed turbines with two alternators. I built a 15' axial-flux with MPPT controllers a few years ago and I regularly see peak output in the 2.5-4 kW range. I'm not trying to convert anyone mind you, just trying to understand better what's out there. It seems like the matching (blades to alternator) challenge becomes more of the 'gate' in a given design than the efficiency of the individual components (blade design, alternator, transmission). Nice work in any event. Kindly, `ks |
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| DaveP68 Senior Member Joined: 25/11/2014 Location: New ZealandPosts: 292 |
Hi kitestrings Thanks for following my various topics that all revolve around the F&P stator, but more importantly the newer technology 36 pole copper unit with black rotor cap. The main driver for me publishing all this new testing data, is that a lot of previous data published on here related to older 42 pole stators. Reading through past topics and/or posts there seemed to be a limit of 400 W per stator using the older 42 pole type stators. Yes fillm has built a Dual F&P wind turbine with an expected Power* of 600-850 W. States on his website OZ Wind Engineering "Ultimate F&P Dual stator" available in the world. Bit of a bold statement to make if you ask me, but he built it and I don't have one. So without a wind turbine have resorted to using a 1200 W drill and sometimes a lathe. So you can see from all my data that an upper limit per stator is 1-1.5 kW. So with a dual set up it could be possible to get 2-3 kW peak. Fred (flc1) using some of my data has been able to get 1.1 kW peak out a of a Dual F&P using 2x 36 pole copper stators with black rotor caps. They're driven by a 2.5 m diameter set of 8 blades. So the historical ~400 W per stator limit was overcome more than a year ago  Fred is currently rebuilding his wind turbine & moving to a 3 m diameter set of 3 GOE222 blades supplied by OZ Wind Engineering. He hopes to get a peak output of 2 kW which will be limited by his new inverter in this case from what I can work out. Could you please supply me some operating data from your 15' axial-flux with MPPT controllers? Interested to know things like cut in RPM, peak RPM, operating Volts/Amps range into and out of MPPT controllers etc. There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :) |
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| kitestrings Senior Member Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102 |
So, are these the only application/size? My original question was whether there were larger F& P motors in use. |
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| DaveP68 Senior Member Joined: 25/11/2014 Location: New ZealandPosts: 292 |
All my data only covers the current technology for top loading washing machines, outside that scope I have zero interest. From what I understand there is a larger motor used on the front loading product 305 mm in diameter as compared to 276 mm for what I work with. It can produce 20% more torque and operate up to 1600 RPM compared to 1100 RPM for the top loaders motors. Google "fisher and paykel smart drive motor specs" to find out more. Have no idea where to get them from, as have no part numbers or manuals etc. I operate like a dentist, only do teeth so to speak... There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :) |
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