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Forum Index : Windmills : Standing Big China
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rustyrod Senior Member  Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Standing Big China 
Ready to go 
When you are half way, You are neither up nor down. 
Up, up and away. 
Skinny Jim 
Radio controlled push button muscle. (1500kg ATV winch) The only job I can do standing back with my hands in my pockets. When I first stood this Genny, my mate and I heaved it up. It got to a point where it was too heavy to go back down so we struggled on, denting the roof pretty bad. There had to be a better (easier) way. Note - The angle iron brackets are connected to a bolt welded to the trusses below. Always Thinking |
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Downwind Guru  Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
How do you go with turbine noise being transfered into the house? i would expect it to drive you crazy over time. Sometimes it just works |
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| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Big China is on the workshop roof beside the house and you would not know it was there until the sun flashes in off the tail. (Like a speed camera, flash) Some what disconcerting. In the workshop it is quieter than the cars on the road out-front. Yes I can hear it and sometimes it sounds like some male talking as they wander in. I have a Missouri blade set not those straight blades that came with it. 
BUT on the other shed 20 meters from the house is GIGU, a 550 watt genny. What a winger, when it is charging the stator whine would drive you from the yard. I can hear it everywhere, even in the bedroom. I try to console myself with “If it is making that obnoxious whine it is charging” Some times it goes right through me. BUT WAIT there is more! When the brake comes on it vibrates the shed so bad that the sound radiates to the house and rumbles the whole building. A Truck with the Jake brake on coming through the yard I am sure would be quieter. I was going to erect it on the house to reduce the wire length, THANK Goodness I did not. How anyone would have one of these on the stern of a boat I would not know. If the owner did not throw it over board the other boaties would. Thankfully I have no close neighbors. It came down recently and bent the shaft, when a turnbuckle undid (tie off the turnbuckles) I must say even though I had bought it some time ago the Chinese EBay company (ilovexioa) was able to supply a new shaft and blade hub for us$60.oo express post. Wind gennys put the wind up me in a storm. In hind sight for the amount of power I get and the anxiety I have, I would have more solar panels instead. They look good to the public, I suppose. Like I am doing my bit to save the planet. Always Thinking |
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norcold Guru Joined: 06/02/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 670 |
Spot on they certainly look good and convey the message we are doing our bit, but reality is solar panels lick them hands down on doing our bit, much lower carbon footprint. But my 3 small wind turbines certainly get attention when a new visitor visits. Much simpler to install, no moving parts, bugger all maintenance, consistent energy, etc - solar the "silent power". We come from the land downunder. Vic |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Great job, norcold. And a great story. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Sorry, meant rustyrod job! Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
A few weeks ago a stranger looking for a way around roadworks using a GPS came down the road which is marked as a through road but is in reality a dead end, saw the wind gennys and lobbed in. He opened the conversation with “Do those wind generators work?” “Well, yes they do” I replied “I have one like that one, I think it used to work but it doesn’t any more. Anyhow I pulled the shed down and the generator too, It's yours if you want it” “Well thank you, How much and Where do you live?” “It's free, Never mind where I live. I'll drop it off next time I am around here” And, he was gone. 10 days and he was back with the generator still on the mast sticking 15 feet out the back of a box trailer. (No warning flag) Tied in with baling twine. The guy wires were all tangled up with the blades on the floor. “Here it is, Couldn't find the tail, I hope it works for you. Here is the control box” We unloaded it “Thanks” and he was gone again. By the way, the control box was the same as mine. Some coincidence? I wonder if he will come by one day to see if I put it up? I eventually took the cover off the generator and discovered the wires were twisted together and shorting. I fitted a slip ring assembly. I injected gear oil supplement into all the bearings. Then I noticed only the red and black wires seemed to have been used with the green cut back short, so possibly was only operating on one phase. On to the controller :- First the voltage regulator and the capacitor near it had exploded ! Second the dump relay had 2 of it's contacts shorted to be in “Dump mode” Some adjustment with a big screwdriver and it was working again. I suspect it had been abandon with no battery connected and the voltage had run away. I fitted a SPDT manual switch for the dump relay. Up position is to a “Gizmo design” voltage controller, and down is manually locked on to the internal dump. Next I wired in 6 diodes and a 10uf capacitor to the volt meter so it measures the generator voltage instead of the battery voltage. I made a new tail arm and used the vane off the other unit. I modified the base mount to suit my roof, sorted and extended the guy wires, made anchor points, welded bolts to the trusses under the roof, moved the winch assembly over then, up, up and away.  Easy to say but took about 4 or 5 days all together over a few weeks. I stayed with the Chinese blades in unmodified condition. One blade seems to “swish” otherwise it is quiet. There is very little difference in the generating ability of the two units, excepting the Chinese blades start turning in a much lighter wind although not actually generating. (wearing out the bearings)  The inbuilt ammeters are unreliable and no where near calibrated the same! I could use another of these controllers. Perhaps you have one lurking in your “Back Shed” you do not require any-more that you might part with. I would of course pay postage. Please PM me with costs etc. Thanks, rustyrod Always Thinking |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Hi Rustyrod, How does it perform ,what wattage are you getting from it? Fred |
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| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Perhaps I should answer the question this way. After watching Big China for more than a year and watching the new China for a couple of weeks they appear to be much the same I will quote what goes into the 24 volt battery bank Starting with wind speed verses amps Both China at 17 kph have reached 24 volts, no charging At 19 kph the amp meters are flickering At 21 kph the two China are making around 3 amps each and the GIGU is flicking it's amp meter At 25 kph the two China are up to 5 amps each and GIGU is 3 amps At 30 kph the two China are at around 10 amps each and so is GIGU Now the China with the standard blades is starting to furl At 35 kph the standard blade China is furled and making 5 amps but the one with the American 5 blades is making 20 amps and starting to furl At 35 kph GIGU is making that HORRIBLE truck brake noise, which I now know is an out of balance causing the blades to warp into a multi sine wave along their length. This varies from 3 waves to 5 or more. (Just Don't look) It is making around 15 amps in this condition At 40 plus kph both the China are furled and thrashing about and GIGU, well I am totally ignoring it, I don't want to know what is going on there ! At gusting 100 kph wind I am not looking outside, hiding and looking wide eyed at my wife who is very quiet. No, we can't hear the gennys ! The Air-X 12volt needs 23 Kph to start to lift it's ammeter At 30 kph the internal voltage protection starts to shut it down and start up again In between cycles the ammeter is jammed way past the 10 amp mark I believe it will do better when I bring it down and reset the cut out voltage a little higher And a larger range ammeter ! Maybe 2 more blades for better low wind starting or small goe222s Remember these amps are into the batteries not into a dump load or short circuit I would average each China is making 3 amps per hour per year There for the answer is :- 3amp x 24hr x 365d = 26280 amps per year / 24 volts = 1095watts or about 1 kilo watt per year per Genny As I have said many times the SCARY outweighs the capacity. When a storm approaches I switch them to dump load and DON'T LOOK ! Always Thinking |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Gday Rustyrod umm ,I came to a diffrent awnser, 3amp x 24v =72wper hour x 24hr =1728w per day x 365 days =630720w per year? so 630.7kwh per year, thats good output. are you sure they are doing 3 amps all day every day? Is my math correct, or am I missing somthing? Fred |
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| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Hi Fred, I like your maths better  I was only guessing the average Today each time I looked the ammeters were just above 5 amps for both the China gennys Some days it would stay over 10 amps for hours Of course there are days when there is nothing at all, although not many. The trees around here all lean in the same direction, toward the west. The wind seems to be blowing most of the time in the low 20s kph Yesterday it was around 30 kph for most of the day The 3 of them are varying 3 to 5 amps and occasional 7 amps as I type this post The batteries are at 26.6 volts with the lights and inverter on. I had a weather station recording the wind speed for a few years and there was always some breeze here. I seem to loose a lot of fruit off the trees due to wind. Before I could manually control the dump I had seen gas bubbles as big as marbles rising in my batteries. Dare I admit the voltage was around 36 at the time I ripped the wires off the box and shorted them together in an attempt to stop a full runaway. I really would like a record of the outputs although I have no knowledge how to do that Another way of looking at it is :- 2 gennys plus 500w of solar into the batteries and I have 24 v lights, the 24v pressure pump and an inverter that runs the old heavy TV and set top box, the computer and printer. This is on 14 to 16 hours every day. We have been running an evaporation air conditioner and a fan a lot lately too. From time to time I have a 24 v deep well pump for the garden. I never have to charge the batteries from the grid. But being honest sometimes during the winter for a couple of days here and there I run the TV off the grid when the inverter "beeps" at me The 2nd China has only been up a couple of weeks. Time will tell if I never have to run the TV from the grid now there are 3 wind gennys. Then there is a 12 volt system for the phone and internet, well that is another matter altogether. Some thing is not right there. I am not happy with it at all. Investigation are ongoing. It has 180 watts of solar panels and the Air X. The draw is about 2 amps / 24 hrs a day and over 4 amps when the phone is ringing (not often) These are old batteries with desulphators on them. I can't measure what desulphators draw. They go flat and require a recharge (2 amps for 48 hrs) from the grid about once every 6 weeks. I have ordered a 12 volt timer and will turn the "boxes" off for 6 hours at night and see how that goes There is another stand alone 12 volt 12 ah battery (that I found sitting on a bin) with 2 by 20 watt panels that runs the controller and the re-circulation pump on the solar hot water and it has been left to do It's job for about 2 years quite unattended. It also has a desulphator attached. Always Thinking |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Gday Rustyrod Thats interesting reading there , Im thinking my calculation is probably somewhere near it with what you say about the amount of wind you have there. What part of the country are you in ?some good pics, Sounds like a interesting setup you have there,I wish I could pull my turbine down that easily, I need a tactor for mine.A real pain in the arse, so try to get things right when its down, Those chinese turbines seem to be okay? are you happy with them? Im looking at building another turbine useing some of Phills blades, and useing same tower and tail etc from the present one,well thats an idea anyway, may have to just build new tail aswell, but will use same tower, I will keep the present turbine going for a while longer, started building new one today,but still trying to decide if I use 2 or 3 fnp stators ,once I get blades Il be able to make a decision, got a shaft set for 3 stators,but can easily leave one off for 2, with gearing . It will be months before its finnished, Il have to remember to take some pics of turbine build,to put on here. You can get inline dc watt meters for you turbines, with 100 amp 60v rateing, on internet, they are not that expencive, they will show you what your turbines are putting out. How big is you solar water heater? Fred |
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| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
I ordered some of the meters I got the first China mill when they were all the rage years ago. By the time I got around to put it up the bearings were noisy immediately. I think the Chinas are OK, I wish I could furl them. I have imagineered a furling cable, although I never seem to have the time to install it I have GOT to do something with GIGU, it is starting to get to me Next year! wait it IS next year already I also have some of Phill's blades for a 32 volt Dunlite. I am still reconstructing the tower I live down here  at the end of this road, I think the wind gets deflected by this extinct volcano ( I hope it stays that way) and channeled into this valley. See the lean on the trees, even the fence ! I have a few F&P all half constructed, one day I may get one done. I have a spare set of China blades and another set of American blades. It will make for an interesting comparison Always Thinking |
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| flc1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2011 Location: New ZealandPosts: 242 |
Ha! yep looks like you get a bit of wind there. |
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| electrondady1 Senior Member Joined: 12/02/2009 Location: CanadaPosts: 208 |
can you get any hot water out of that volcano? |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
As soon as I saw that photo I thought that looks like the area where I grew up and looking at your profile confirmed it. At a guess looking at the trees you were facing north when you took the photo. I used to have a 1500W Dunlite on a 24M tower just north of Toowoomba on the edge of the range. However, there was way too much turbulence there for it to work effectively, it would just get going and then the whole head would do a 360 or 2 and lose it's momentum and then repeat the whole process. It flogged out the rollers in the governor several times due to this. The area where you are is completely different terrain so you should not have the same problem. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Madness you are correct I was facing north, I left the rest of the mountain out of the pic as it is so recognizable. The wind is a little turbulent, as these gennys are not very high. I "jest" about the fence leaning from the wind. Dumb council graded a bank along the side of the road and the dirt is slowly pushing the fence over. I suppose they will realize their mistake and come back and fix it. I wish I could get hot something from under there for geothermal power. I would need a very long hole now to get to the hot stuff. There would have been plenty of hot water here a few million years ago Actually no lava actually came out. It rose up and fell back 3 times then went cold. There are many hills and humps around here where lava rose under the surface but never came through The wind has been roaring through for the last few days. Eventually it gives one "bad hair days" and sometimes I think "enough already" as I can't do anything like spray weeds, windmill repairs or much to the gennys, even on the roof is uncomfortable and the bees sure don't appreciate having their lid lifted. They well and truly tell me to "buzz off" The batteries are all over full so probably will go to "dump" today or maybe I should drag some leads across the kitchen floor and plug the frig and freezer in ? I must do an up date on the solar hot water ongoings soon. Always Thinking |
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| Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
I grew up on a farm about 4 KM north of where the so called Brisbane west Airport is now. I remember when I was a kid we were getting a new irrigation bore drilled. There were many rocks that came out that clearly were solidified molten lava due to the ripples etc on them. Possibly from the same mountain in your photo if it is the one I am thinking of due to you comment about being so recognisable if you showed more of it. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
if it was Biddeston ( I think thats the area) , then our family had a dairy out that way .. Just a wild guess from my wayback family memory ?? Bruce Bushboy |
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| rustyrod Senior Member Joined: 08/11/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 121 |
Hi All, The wind here has been relentless of late Both tails furled (camera stopped the blades)  I noticed the second china genny spinning at high speed and also making a winging sound I tested and found one wire was open circuit, therefore only one phase was now working I let it down and deduced the slip ring assembly was faulty I should not have been lazy and fitted a home made set in the first place I bought one similar to  I now made up an assembly with rings and brushes from an alternator. While it was down I modified the blades by cutting 25mm at the tip tapered towards the inner end.  I shaped and sanded the blades, then using a precision balance scale adjusted each blade to equal weight.  Then again using the balance adjusted each tip end to be equal weight also. I then made a tapered shaft to suspend the hub with the blades attached.  I could not understand why one blade required a ½ inch nut almost to the tip for a balance. I had measured the tip to tip distances, there were slight differences Many frustrating hours later after checking and rechecking I realised the blades were not sitting neatly into the hub, also the mounting holes were not equal distance from the tips. I cut off the inner end and reseated the blades with only one bolt each, I'll be … It almost balanced.  Hours later I discovered just one small tap sideways on a blade would throw the balance in another direction. Finally I was able to drill new holes and bolt it all together, there was about 20 mm difference at the tips to being perfectly level. I then re-glassed and painted the blades, they only needed a little sanding adjustment to balance again. I enlarged the tail which had the side effect advantage of balancing the unit on the mast bearings It is very quiet now and does not shake the shed any-more I believe the time involved has nearly doubled the output of this genny Time to tackle more blades. Always Thinking |
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