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Forum Index : Windmills : Latest F&P Dual " Ultimate "
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fillm Guru  Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Well thought I would share a few pics and show of the latest F&P Dual from Oz Wind Eng, it seems to be a bit quiet of late as no one seems to be show and telling anymore. I recently revamped my original F&P design to simplify it to what I think are the best settings for furling and all the rest that I have learnt over the years and then to have most of materials laser cut in steel as well coupled with the GOE222 blades. Even with the laser cutting there is still plenty of hands on work, and it was not as simple as just knocking it all up over a weekend or two, and there has been some major learning curves with fiberglass and getting it all to fit just right. I call this one the "Ultimate" as it has basically the best of everything I can throw into it, with the motors being 1 x 80S and 1 x 100S ( Twisted poles for decogg ) , they are rectified at the mill head and then through 50A Slip Rings / cowlings and then the "manual furl" for positive shut down when required . The Kits are all in the " Kits & parts " page and have been there for quite a few months now so if anyone wants more info then you can contact me there. I still think the old F&P is one of the most reliable wind gens out there , I have been down a few roads of Axial Flux and sure they can punch out some good figures but also have a lot of problems with overheating and burnout common place and have proved that a couple of times. Build it strong and The F&P will sit in 100Klm wind all day every day !!! 
PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Nice looking machine Phill. Yep got to agree, the F&P has been around for a long time now, but still a tough, reliable and proven alternator. Coupled with GOE222 blades they make a good windmill. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| kitestrings Senior Member  Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102 |
Pillm, Great looking turbine. Your attention to detail is apparent. I really like the weather protection you've incorporated. Have you had the Ultimate up and running or is this the first of the new design? Curious why you rectified 'upstairs' as apposed to running 3-phase to the controller? Hope you'll keep us posted. Really nice. ~kitestrings |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
My guess is, Dual stators = 6 phase, and a single 3 phase slip ring, so easier to rectifier and just use 2 slip rings out of 3 for DC down the tower. Rather than using 2 x 3phase slip rings. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498 |
What do you do to protect the F&P rotor from UV damage? Some one I know had one lying on the ground outside for a few years. I saw it and picked it up and it just fell apart in my hands. There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't. |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
There are cowlings as mentioned,.... but first I ever heard of a stator falling apart from UV , the tub and other plastic bits ...Yes. Why would some one store one on the ground in full sun ? Anyway... If you did want to protect it better then a bit of paint would be the first to spring to mind. 
Pete .. you are right , 6 slip rings is just to many. PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Phill, Looks great! The wire running towards the tail has me intrigued, is it for a LED or a furling sense cable? Easily confused! Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Sorry Phill, just read the phrase "manual furl" and I can see the red string going down. I believe a F&P cannot be braked electrically to stop a run-away after furling failure, am I correct? That is a pity as a too-high power indication can be sensed. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
Just have another question: I thought that with a dual the shaft can be milled to be offset in such a way that there is no need to twist the poles for de-cogging? So many questions, so little time! Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Near impossible to get it right Dom. Tried it myself with no luck, and if you get it wrong, the cogging is twice as bad as before. One degree either way and its all stuffed up. Pole twisting is easy once you've made the tool, and combined with a good set of blades, cogging isn't really a issue any more. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Dom, Twisting the poles works well , I just leave the rear stator bolts just nipped enough to be able to move it back and forth , after a while and when you are just about to give up you find the sweet spot and there is virtually no cogging, at this point with the GOE222 blades / 2.8m Dia it will start up in 6 ~ 9klm winds . All wind turbines should never be Electrically Braked in high wind ( especially Axial Flux) , manual furling is a very good option to help protect all WTG's in severe wind. Once locked in full furl and shorted a WTG will be very difficult to start, although the F&P due to its iron core means the power/torque drops off at higher RPM, but this is also what protects it, and like all alternators in strong enough winds, a shorted alternator can still spin, this downside also helps it survive from overheating and why they just go and go if they are built strong enough to handle mother natures fury. Having the manual furl also allows it to be side on to the wind reducing stress on the tower, guy ropes and anchor points. I have one of my earlier designs that has been flying for quite some time now down behind Melb in the ranges, here it is constantly subjected to winds in excess of 60 ~ 80 klm , and in recent days has been above 100k , it can sit there all day in this at max output with out burning out ... the owner is 
PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| domwild Guru Joined: 16/12/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 873 |
The remark re axial flux turbines burning is correct; just normal operation can lead to overheating. I visited wopokal (?) on his plantation south of Perth and his axial had just burned out. He moved to Queensland. Many years back I read of an electrical furling system for water pumpers. It was a setup using a starter motor, which pulled the cord (standard issue for pumpers), which then swung the tail. I am not too sure if this contributor activated the starter from his house but it could be automated after persistent excessive gusts being measured via the vane. A starter I believe will only rotate in one direction, so the "unfurling" will have to be done manually. Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up. Winston Churchill |
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| kitestrings Senior Member Joined: 23/04/2014 Location: United StatesPosts: 102 |
It shouldn't if things are designed correctly. That's not to say there aren't examples of axial burnouts. There are lots of 'em, but if you drill in you see many of the same problems repeated. With direct-tie it was more of a challenge for sure, with MPPT and reliable furling there's really no reason this should be the case. IMO a much more serious problem with axials - neos I should say - is corrosion in salt air settings. We don't have this here, but it would surely change my approach. I agree, however, with PhilM direction on manual furling. When the next severe "wind event" is about to arrive, the safest and most passive way to shut things down is with manual furling. Again, terrific looking machine here. Regards, ~ks |
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