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KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178

Posted: 03:12am 13 Nov 2011

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I cant remember if I posted the pics so here they are .

Unfortunatley looks like a weld failure of the tower we bought.
failed at the join with the cuff and lifted the tower off the top of the stub left behind.
did 18months and obviously turbine has suffered as a result.

Couple of new blades will fix the turbine with everything else surviving remarkably unscathed.

Unfortunately now time to get real and if anyone wants to buy the turbine and hub sans blades, now's the time to make an offer.

Dad is still keen and got plenty of enjoyment out of it, but I cant help but think $500 worth of panels will make twice the power the f&p did.

Luck favours the well prepared

brucedownunder2
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Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548

Posted: 06:07am 13 Nov 2011

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Hi karl , Sorry for your misfortune.

How the hell could that have happened, you reckon the weld broke AND the whole gismo raised itself 3-4 inches before toppling ??
what about the guys ,,they should have had enough tension to keep her down??? Dunno..

I recently purchased 880 watts of solar for $710 ,,,brand new Sharp's at 220 watts -,, small scratch on the al frame in one corner --- I was lucky..

all the best

Bruce

Bushboy

shawn

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Joined: 30/03/2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 210

Posted: 08:37am 13 Nov 2011

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Sory to see this Karl, I did like that mill it seems the f&p mills are a dying breed now with the reality of pv and better mills!
was that the tower that had no guys on it? I remember some discusion about it we can learn from these deaths.

Tinker

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Joined: 07/11/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1904

Posted: 03:04pm 13 Nov 2011

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Yes, a sad sight but whoever made this mast did not know that a save overlap would be 3 times the diameter of the tube. Not less than 1 time as the rusty part shows.
3 x gives strength if its a good tight fit and the load on the weld is very much reduced.

Klaus

KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178

Posted: 11:52pm 13 Nov 2011

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on a lighter note...

I got the logging system up and running for live data on PV output
for my home system
can be seen here
PV-KILL BILL

even with miserable weather like today will still crack in perhaps 30kWhrs

It uses PVbeancounter and Bluetooth to communicate with the CMS and the SMA inverters
adds the two together in a database and uploads them to PVOutput.

Luck favours the well prepared

mac46

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Joined: 07/02/2008
Location: United States
Posts: 412

Posted: 02:58am 14 Nov 2011

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Hello KarlJ,

Looking at the break in the tower, it looks like it was full of water inside, maybe it froze and fractured??? maybe or maybe not. Really to bad about looseing the mill like this, can it be made right again?

Kind reguards,

Mac46

I'm just a farmer

brucedownunder2
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Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548

Posted: 05:17am 14 Nov 2011

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Hahahah,,, laughing my arse off --

Mac --maybe it froze ==

Bloody hell hell ,Mac , he's in hell's country -never gets below 40 C ..

We rarely see that white stuff on the ground ...

Seriously .,though , I'm wondering how the hell it jumped out of that spiggot when the guys should have been tensioning it downwards.

Dunno, he'll have to tell us more --me thinks..

froze ---hahah

I wish

Bruce.

Bushboy

Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301

Posted: 10:04am 14 Nov 2011

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Hi Klaus,
That's a helpfull gem!Would that apply to a butt joint with bolt through internal sleeve length.Cheers Rastus

see Rastus graduate advise generously

Madness

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Joined: 08/10/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 2498

Posted: 10:49am 14 Nov 2011

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brucedownunder2 said Hahahah,,, laughing my arse off --

Mac --maybe it froze ==

Bloody hell hell ,Mac , he's in hell's country -never gets below 40 C ..

We rarely see that white stuff on the ground ...

Seriously .,though , I'm wondering how the hell it jumped out of that spiggot when the guys should have been tensioning it downwards.

Dunno, he'll have to tell us more --me thinks..

froze ---hahah

I wish

Bruce.

You should know not everyone is as on the ball as us Aussie's.

There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.

KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178

Posted: 12:32pm 14 Nov 2011

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No guy wires on this tower.
at only 6.3m with the gauge of steel you see in the pic and 4m3 of concrete at the base
it wasn't supposed to go anywhere and was engineered for the task.

There was lots of talk at the time but I simply did not have a welder in the paddock to add extra lumps for attaching said guy-wires.

Guy who supplied it claimed that he had several 3-4kW mills, on the coast on same towers with no problems.

I guess they didnt have piss poor welds.

make no mistake he's going to make good...Edited by KarlJ 2011-11-15

Luck favours the well prepared

Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5078

Posted: 12:50pm 14 Nov 2011

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Karl, you got to have guy wires, and this is the reason why!

For a free standing tower of 7 meters I wouldn't use anything less than 100mm medium wall pipe or larger, or a latice tower. Any joints would need at lease 300mm overlap, as Tinker points out, and plug welded. Full circumference welds are best left to the experts, cause thats where its going to break.

And even then, I would still add guy wires.

Guy wires are so easy, and surprisingly strong.

Glenn

The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
JAQ

yahoo2

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Joined: 05/04/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1166

Posted: 01:35pm 14 Nov 2011

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I think this point was made very clear at the time the tower was erected.
If anyone would like a recap new farm mill ready to go The real question is what happens now? Is a rebuild job on the damaged generator and tower a viable option or is it to far gone to repair?

Given Karl's solar guru status extra panels would be a very attractive option.(No,I am not just buttering him up because I'm in the market for some panels

)

yahoo

I'm confused, no wait... maybe I'm not...

Tinker

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Joined: 07/11/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1904

Posted: 02:53pm 14 Nov 2011

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Rastus said Hi Klaus,
That's a helpfull gem!Would that apply to a butt joint with bolt through internal sleeve length.Cheers Rastus

Hi Rastus,
I should imagine it does not matter if the sleeve is inside or outside if the overlap (on each side of the join) is the same 3x dia minimum ratio and the sleeve is a tight fit.
Bolt through holes should not create new weak spots in your case though.

You could even do a butt joint with flanges only, these must be engineered and welded professionally but that's outside of most home builders expertise.

Klaus

JimBo911

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Joined: 26/03/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 262

Posted: 03:33pm 14 Nov 2011

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Karl

Ahhhhhhhh geezzzzzz I hate seeing this kind of stuff. Seems we've all have had our ups and downs.
I've had my mill the the ground a couple of times almost gave up but decided to hang tough and keep her flying.
Here was my answer to such tower couplings. Cable on the lower left is for the gin pole.

Karl you a mill head all the way, you will rebuild and fly again!

Jim

KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178

Posted: 06:48am 16 Nov 2011

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Thanks Jim but with the likes of Conergy dumping solarfun 185W panels in melbourne for $X.00/W its tough to stay in business with quality gear...

Luck favours the well prepared

Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301

Posted: 08:46am 16 Nov 2011

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Thanks Klaus!Cheers Rastus

see Rastus graduate advise generously

Oscar4u

Regular Member

Joined: 23/02/2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 42

Posted: 03:17am 17 Nov 2011

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Hello Karl

sorry to see your accident. It looks like it was a threaded joint and that the socket was welded afterwards. If I ever do structural work I never ever rely on the pipe threads, and most sockets and other pipe fittings are cast iron so welding them is a bad idea. Also pipe threads have a very bad habit of rusting when you are not looking. Best wishes
Oscar

Oscar4u - for all your rotary cowshed repairs

JimBo911

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Joined: 26/03/2009
Location: United States
Posts: 262

Posted: 02:15pm 17 Nov 2011

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Karl
You make a strong argument. You have tons of sun unlike what I have here.
I have as much darkness as we do light in the winter. Winter Sucks.

Jim

KiwiJohn
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Joined: 01/12/2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 691

Posted: 07:13pm 17 Nov 2011

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Seems odd though that it managed to jump off that! Any chance some Aberdeen Angus was scratching his butt at the time?

KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178

Posted: 11:12am 20 Nov 2011

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I just figured out your pic Jim
jeezus thats going no-where.

I guess given you have had a couple of incidents too that came about from experience!

Luck favours the well prepared

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