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Forum Index : Windmills : Heating a House in Britian

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rasberry

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Joined: 12/12/2006
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Posts: 4
Posted: 11:10am 06 Jan 2007
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Hi, i live in a house in Scotland, That is totally electric.

I am trying to start heating the house using solar panels and small wind turbines, small because of the neighbours and planning.

I am just starting.

Most people say it is not economical to do, but I would like to trying doing it, for myself.

I don't think that you can produce a lot of electricity from a small wind turbine, atleast not enough for heating.

My idea is to use many very small windmills or solar panels.

I.e. to power one small heater off one small windmill, etc or a small light off one small solar panel. One-to-One.

I am thinking of making the wind mill off the website or maybe buying a very small one, like the Rutland 504, because it is silent for the neighbours and not to big.

------
Gregor
------
 
Gizmo

Admin Group

Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5078
Posted: 11:28pm 06 Jan 2007
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Hi Gregor.

Welcome to the world of home made windmills.

Have you seen Hugh's windmill site, he's in Scotland too.
http://www.scoraigwind.com/

Glenn
The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
JAQ
 
Jonger

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Joined: 08/09/2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4
Posted: 01:00pm 09 Jan 2007
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Gregor

If you are looking for heat you will struggle to get a decent return from a wind turbine, they generate at low voltage - 12, 24, 36 volts dc etc so you will then need to convert that back to 240v ac before you can use it for your heaters.

You would be better to look at solar water heating which is much more efficient especially with evacuated tube collectors. Try This site for solar heating at realistic prices - he also sells wind turbines so its a good site to visit.

Jonger
Jonger
 
rasberry

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Joined: 12/12/2006
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Posted: 03:39pm 09 Jan 2007
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Dear Glenn

Thanks for the reply.

I looked at the wind mill site. It was very useful.

Thanks.

It gave me lost of new ideas.

Gregor.
 
rasberry

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Posted: 03:40pm 09 Jan 2007
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Dear Jonger

Thanks for that sight, I have seen him about at the shows in Scotland.

It is a really useful site.

Thanks

Gregor.
 
rasberry

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Posted: 07:47pm 10 Jan 2007
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I have been looking at the solar water heating, and it looks good. But I don't think that it would heat a house. I think it is ment for heating the hot water tank.

I just don't think that in Scotland you could heat your house that way?

Maybe you can with the vacum flasks?

Also the other question is to do with the building, if the building heats up with the sun the area covered by the solar water heater is "taking away energy from the house" by covering it.(minimal).

I know this is not a huge amount but if the heat given by the sun is not alot it might "make the system not work so well" ?

Maybe if you got the flasks to work really well and the indoor heater to give of loads of its heat, i.e. get the ratio between absobsion and "giving off heat" totally right, "fine-tuning" then maybe you could heat your home from the sun ?? That would be good.

I have never seen this done before.

-------

I have a question to do with thermodynamics. If the heat outside is say 15C then I supppose there is a way to make the house hotter than this, by taking in heat and "dumping" it inside and then "going back" for more heat, over and over so ?? in theory ?? the solar system could heat and heat the building to say 30C ?? But in practice, it doesn't seem like it would actually happen ?? Maybe it would ??

G.

Please get back.



 
petanque don
Senior Member

Joined: 02/08/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 212
Posted: 12:37am 11 Jan 2007
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Would a product like the sun lizard be more appropriate for house heating?

http://www.sunlizard.com.au/

Being in Scotland sunshine and solar energy I would guess would be at a premium.
 
KiwiJohn
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Joined: 01/12/2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 691
Posted: 07:49am 11 Jan 2007
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Rasberry, a heat pump does exactly what you are proposing, it takes heat from the outside air and releases in the house.

Solar heating temps can be much more than the outside air temp, just think of a black plate behind glass.

 
mrpackethead

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Joined: 11/11/2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 17
Posted: 10:08am 11 Jan 2007
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  Jonger said   Gregor

If you are looking for heat you will struggle to get a decent return from a wind turbine, they generate at low voltage - 12, 24, 36 volts dc etc so you will then need to convert that back to 240v ac before you can use it for your heaters.

Jonger


Some mills do produce those sorts of voltages, some product 3000V. However even so, why would to back to run at 240V? Thats not efficent use of power.

Every thing should be as simple as possible. Not simpler.
 
Jonger

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Joined: 08/09/2006
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 12:45pm 11 Jan 2007
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  rasberry said   I have been looking at the solar water heating, and it looks good. But I don't think that it would heat a house. I think it is ment for heating the hot water tank.



It is suitable for underfloor heating where you only require a bit more than the room temperature required, but it is not suitable for a conventional central heating system. It all depends on how far you want to go and how deep your pockets are.

Like you I am looking at what I can do at home, I live in an urban environment and have put a small lenz 2 mill down the garden facing open fields to monitor the wind, I tried a horizontal mill first but found it spent all its time spinning round to face the swirling wind so changed it to the Lenz design, slower but more consistant in handling turbulance.
Jonger
 
Jonger

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Joined: 08/09/2006
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4
Posted: 12:49pm 11 Jan 2007
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  mrpackethead said  
Some mills do produce those sorts of voltages, some product 3000V. However even so, why would to back to run at 240V? Thats not efficent use of power.


Domestic heaters in the UK run at 220-240v AC, to use any readily available electric heater you have to convert back to that voltage. Which is why running electric heating off a wind turbine in the UK is a difficult thing to do.
Jonger
 
KiwiJohn
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Joined: 01/12/2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 691
Posted: 05:49am 12 Jan 2007
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Heating is the easiest, quite likely the only, electrical appliacance we can build at home and have 100% efficiency!

Whatever the voltage of you generator you can likely make a heater using the appropriate length of resistance wire. Resistance wire is that coiled up stuff you find in a wrecked clothes dryer and in a lot of electric heaters. But dont be daft and unless you know what you are doing then leave this alone if you are dealing with dangerous voltages.

However, if it is hot water you seek then maybe forget about the electrical side entirely and build something like this



http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/newsarch/2006/Sep06/waterhea ter.html
 
jondy
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Joined: 14/01/2007
Location: England
Posts: 4
Posted: 03:36pm 13 Jan 2007
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Water heating from magnets rotated over a copper plate looks very interesting. New to me. Has any one tried spinning up some magnets (with an electric drill,say) over a copper plate? Would it produce a useful amount of heat at lowish rpms? I will get some magnets and try it myself but wonder if anyone has looked into this. I wonder if the area of copper plate under the magnets would be enough to heat water?
I would of thought that the usual solar flat plate collecter would be more efficient but might be a goer for a simple vawt I have in mind.

thanks   John (UK)
 
Feral
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Joined: 03/12/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 39
Posted: 04:14pm 13 Jan 2007
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Jondy,
      I have also heard about a simular method by rotating magnets within an aluminium block or cylinder creating temps up to 350deg.
This was done by the two partners of Lutec Australia but it does not appear on their latest web site but I am sure that if you contact Loui Brits on their web site he may be able to help.
If you have no luck contacting him direct I will attempt to get the information from him when I speak to him next that is if he is prepared to pass it on for third party distrabution and I believe he will.
 
jondy
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Joined: 14/01/2007
Location: England
Posts: 4
Posted: 04:52pm 13 Jan 2007
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Hi Feral,
Sounds v/interesting. I remember a site about magnets and advanced motors. They showed a v/powerful magnet that was dropped through a heavy metal tube (possibly copper). It dropped very slowly through for some reason? A problem with rotating magnets may be the amount of power or speed required to spin up the magnets to produce heat. The example from Oregon State may produce useful heat from a vertical wind turbine, perhaps?. It is basically simple. I wonder if it can produce heat at low rpms and how much resistance there is ect. There is patent application behind it so it might make sense.

John
 
KiwiJohn
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Joined: 01/12/2005
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 691
Posted: 02:09am 14 Jan 2007
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I believe the basic principle of the hysteris heat generator is a well proven thing. It is really another form of resistance load and hence will convert 100% of the work put in to heat and has to be more efficient then generating electricity to drive an electric heater.

Like every other form of energy transducer there will be an optimum to match the load with the input power. Here are a few idea on how to adjust the loading.

1. Adjust the gap between the spinning magnets and the copper plate.
2. Adjust the number of magnets.
3. Adjust the diameter of the ring of magnets.
 
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