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ajcmbrown

Newbie

Joined: 24/05/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 13

Posted: 09:01am 13 Jul 2011

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Hi all, I am new to this but I am starting the build of my F&P wind turbine and I am not having any luck finding the blade hub with a spline for the F&P shaft.
The only ones I have found are from kits that are no longer available.
I intend to make PVC blades for its first run, but will be making some timber blades a little down the track.
The ones that I have seen in the "The Back Shed's windmill Kit." (that are no longer available) appear to be able to use either PVC or timber blades, is this correct?
What is everyone on here using?

BobMann

Senior Member

Joined: 30/06/2011
Location: United States
Posts: 134

Posted: 11:20am 13 Jul 2011

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Hello you may wish to try mine.
Bob Mann

Gizmo

Admin Group

Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5078

Posted: 11:44am 13 Jul 2011

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Hi ajcmbrown

Is there a laser cutter or waterjet cutter in your region? The DXF files on http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/Kits.asp and http://www.thebackshed.com/Windmill/articles/MountingExtrude dBlades.asp will make a easy to use blade hub that fits onto the F&P spline.
Also you could try Trev's cast hub http://www.thebackshed.com/BasiclyNatural/ViewItem.asp?CL1=2 0&CL2=56&CL3=NA&id=68.

You could also ignore the spine, treat it as a 22mm shaft and find a pulley with grub screws that fits.

Glenn

The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
JAQ

ajcmbrown

Newbie

Joined: 24/05/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 13

Posted: 11:59am 13 Jul 2011

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Hi Glenn and Bob, thanks for the replies. I don't think there are any laser or water jet cutters in the area that I work in (Cooma) but maybe in Canberra? I will check that out.
Glenn, I didn't consider the grub screw idea as I thought it would be too weak, perhaps I should reconsider.
I guess if the grub screws were located by a countersink on the shaft it would help to prevent slipping or gouging the shaft.
Would a small countersink weaken the shaft too much? I have a small lathe/mill and could mill three flats onto the shaft if that were a better idea.
Sorry for all the questions but I am new at this and dont want to screw it up just by lacking the basic knowledge.
I appreciate the feedback and access to the knowledge of the forum.

shawn

Senior Member

Joined: 30/03/2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 210

Posted: 12:07pm 13 Jul 2011

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I used grub screws for a while they failed so now use a keyway like the way a lawnmower blade mount fits on have had no trouble with it and has withstood 140 km wind gusts with big heavy wood blades that need re balancing.

ajcmbrown

Newbie

Joined: 24/05/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 13

Posted: 12:13pm 13 Jul 2011

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Thanks Shawn, I suspected this could be a possible weak link but may exercise the grey matter a little more before I dismiss it as a viable method, as it could be just a matter of using the correct method.
I do like the idea of a keyway though.

VK4AYQ
Guru

Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539

Posted: 02:26pm 13 Jul 2011

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Hi There

There are a series of taper lock pulleys that lock onto the shaft very well, they are cast iron and quite substantial and strong enough to drill and tap to tale the blade hub, for added security you could use lock tight on the shaft, but be careful not to get on the taper otherwise it is really hard to get apart.

All the best

Bob

Foolin Around

ajcmbrown

Newbie

Joined: 24/05/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 13

Posted: 08:42pm 13 Jul 2011

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Bob, I forgot to ask, what are yours?

BobMann

Senior Member

Joined: 30/06/2011
Location: United States
Posts: 134

Posted: 10:24pm 13 Jul 2011

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Hello
What I was talking about was the Mann Smart Drive ready to go.
It is a steel drum with neomagnets and uses the New F&P 38 pole stator.

Witch you can wire any way you like. 12 Volt=24/48/68/500.
The front is a flat front with 5 1/2 lugs on 4 center.
and a 2 inch OD tail shaft can cut to what you need 3 inch long.
Back view

Side view with my wings you would just build a plate and add you wings
and add a nose cone would make it very cool.

Let me know I would like to see a few out there as HAWT and get some
fead back.
Bob Mann

ajcmbrown

Newbie

Joined: 24/05/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 13

Posted: 02:59am 14 Jul 2011

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Wow! Thats impressive. I would hate to think what shipping would cost to Australia though.
I like the idea of the steel drum Bob, do you angle the magnets to reduce cogging?
I think you are WAY ahead of me in terms of experience and progress with your VAWT, how much power does that produce Bob?

BobMann

Senior Member

Joined: 30/06/2011
Location: United States
Posts: 134

Posted: 11:49am 14 Jul 2011

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Hello
I will check on shipping I to would like to now.

Here is some new specs
> Best case, this is what you can expect from your turbine:
> 10 mph 23 w
> 15 mph 75w
> 20 mph 190 w
> 25 mph 330w
> 30 mph 645 w
> 35 mph 1000w
> 40 mph 1500w
> 45 mph 2300w
> 50 mph 2900w
> (The alt would probably melt on those higher powers)
> So what amount of power should I design to handle?
> Steve
Steve Hansel [steve@us-vawt.com]
That is with a stock stator.
I slant the neomagnets to lighting up the cogging

But We are building a Smart controler for the F&P so that people can use the low cost grid ties and still use the high voltage stators.
It is PC chip base and can learn wind speed from the turbine.
and adjust on its oun to get the most out of it.

Hope to be testing in a few weeks.
I am building a low cost wind tunnel to do some testing on my stuff and help others too.
Bob Mann

BobMann

Senior Member

Joined: 30/06/2011
Location: United States
Posts: 134

Posted: 04:16pm 14 Jul 2011

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hello I checked on shipping to down under it whould be $250 door to door 3to7 days
by post office . Realy not bad UPS was $480.

Bob Mann

Xmaswiz
Regular Member

Joined: 14/04/2011
Location: United States
Posts: 69

Posted: 06:54pm 14 Jul 2011

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BobMann said Hello
I will check on shipping I to would like to now.

Here is some new specs
> Best case, this is what you can expect from your turbine:
> 10 mph 23 w
> 15 mph 75w
> 20 mph 190 w
> 25 mph 330w
> 30 mph 645 w
> 35 mph 1000w
> 40 mph 1500w
> 45 mph 2300w
> 50 mph 2900w
> (The alt would probably melt on those higher powers)
> So what amount of power should I design to handle?
> Steve
Steve Hansel [steve@us-vawt.com]
That is with a stock stator.
I slant the neomagnets to lighting up the cogging

But We are building a Smart controler for the F&P so that people can use the low cost grid ties and still use the high voltage stators.
It is PC chip base and can learn wind speed from the turbine.
and adjust on its oun to get the most out of it.

Hope to be testing in a few weeks.
I am building a low cost wind tunnel to do some testing on my stuff and help others too.
Bob Mann

Keep us posted on the controller, really interested in it!Edited by Xmaswiz 2011-07-16

Santa Maria, CA.
Noel

norcold

Guru

Joined: 06/02/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 670

Posted: 08:06pm 14 Jul 2011

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Yes keep us posted on the smart controller also you state the stator can be configured for up to 500 volts. Or am I reading that incorrectly. If correct how do you achieve this.

We come from the land downunder.
Vic

fillm

Guru

Joined: 10/02/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 730

Posted: 01:23am 15 Jul 2011

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Bob,

The output figures you are stating there do not do it any favours , you have the cutin as starting to make power at 4.4m/s ( 10mph or 16kmh ) 23w which is not that good as most wind generators would be making good power well below that wind speed.

As you can see from the power curve below from my AX-FX @ 15kph or 10mph is up around 280w and is easily making 23w in 5mph, and by 20-25mph 10m/s or 36kph is topping out at over 2000w and previously have seen over 3200W in 50+kph but I now have the furling a lot lower to protect it.

10m/s is where a wind turbine should be at its maximium power and then starting to protect its self .

Because my annemometer goes up in 3 kph increments, I average it though the centre as 15 can be +or- 2.9k which can be seen in the power dots in a line . All this info is logging live to the Piclog Live page HERE .

PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits

BobMann

Senior Member

Joined: 30/06/2011
Location: United States
Posts: 134

Posted: 03:12am 15 Jul 2011

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Hello
Steve is allways on the safe side. and this is a VAWT is a 3 lenx mod blade 4 ft high by 3

It is a Low cost Mann Smart Drive that can be assmbled with off the self suff and put togther in less then 3 hours and shipped around the world.

I am sorry to say but most people in the USA and big time on the East coast hate HAWT
My Tree Top Wind Mill was build to work in dirty air on a tree top. sides of a building roof tops were most HAWT would not go.
I do have a real time logger too. I do like the PicLog but have to much in this set up to change.
If you will convert you chart to MPH to RPM I will do the convertions if it was used as a HAWT.

Our wind this time of year is very low. So I will be building a low cost wind tunnel

for testing. You can only do so much RPM testing on the brigport/lathe as we know the wind is so much deferent.
I looked over your profile and pic you build great stuff. As I am trying to bring the USA up to your speed it takes time and hard work.
Bob Mann

Edited by BobMann 2011-07-16

ajcmbrown

Newbie

Joined: 24/05/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 13

Posted: 10:39am 16 Jul 2011

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Hey guys, I found a thread that mentions that a Toyota Corolla tailshaft fits the F & P spline, can anyone confirm or deny this?
If correct, this could be a great basis for a blade hub, but what model is it from? Manual or Auto? Can anyone who has used one of these tell us more about it?

Ecowatt

Newbie

Joined: 22/07/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1

Posted: 02:16am 19 Jul 2011

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Re Corolla tailshaft. A 1975 manual tailshaft yoke fits the F&P spline
but may be a bit slopy.

If it isn't broke,
don't fix it.

ajcmbrown

Newbie

Joined: 24/05/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 13

Posted: 09:00am 21 Jul 2011

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Shame to hear that, I might have to find an automotive spline that fits properly.

brucedownunder2
Guru

Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1548

Posted: 09:36pm 21 Jul 2011

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Hi Crew .

I remember back around 10 years when I was into F&P mods..

I found this japanese car wrecking yard at brookvale on the nth shore of Sydney.

I spent 2 days going through the splines , tail shafts, clutches, flywheels, Etc.

Found maybe one that sort of fitted ,but still not accurate, so gave up.

I've run the original F&P shaft in the standard rotor spline housing for maybe a couple years , but the plastic spline housing gradually wears and you end up with failure.

Glenn and Trev have manufactured spline housing hubs in the past , both very well engineered. For the cost ,they are well worth it.

Phill perfected the hub attachment in my opinion with a collet type fitting , so contact him for rolls royce fittings..

Bruce

Bruce

Bushboy

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