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Forum Index : Windmills : Smart Drive build USA Tough
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BobMann Senior Member  Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
Hello I have been viewing your site and say you guys are way ahead of use here in the States. I am the builder of the Tree Top Wind Mill here in the USA just out of Boston MA. I have beed working with you Smart Drives for a while and have found them to being supper. I have changed my Wind Mill over to use your Smart Drive but what I have done is made some changes to it to make it a low cost power unit I hope you like what I have done. Here is my Tree Top Wind Mill with the Mann Smart Drive I know I changed the the name but I did do a lot of upgrades. 
Here is the back side of the power unit 
Here is the drum with the upgraded NeoMagnets 
I use a premade steel drum with HD bears and hub that will take 3500 LB of load all day long and is water tight. The axle shaft is ready to go just some machine work very little. Please let me know what you think good or bad. As I said you guys are way a head of the USA but I am trying . Bob Mann |
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| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Bob The generator looks good, very solid. I will be interested to see how it goes with the NEO magnets. Looking at your blades though I think the may be subject to flutter in turbulent air due to the single mount point on the generator. Maybe a star stabilizer on the top would stiffen it a bit. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
Thank you for the kind words. I have tryed a small cable on the top worked very well. And a small strap from one to another. Here are some spec for the Wind Turbine with my Drive. > Best case, this is what you can expect from your turbine: > 10 mph 23 w > 15 mph 75w > 20 mph 190 w > 25 mph 330w > 30 mph 645 w > 35 mph 1000w > 40 mph 1500w > 45 mph 2300w > 50 mph 2900w > > (The alt would probably melt on those higher powers) > > So what amount of power should I design to handle? This is from off site back up testing On my wind tests on my truck my RPM = Wind Speed was more like 10 MPH = 100 RPM 20 MPH = 200 RPM with out a wind tunnel it can be hard to get real good data. I do now read wind speed and Watts,AMPs, KwattH, Volts into the grid. Here is a YouTube of it working on the drillpress. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLx9KOaCLnw&feature=mfu_in_or der&list=UL Bob Mann |
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shawn Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2010 Location: New ZealandPosts: 210 |
First welcom to this 4m your mill looks great I bet you are proud, Bob is right make it as tough as you can the big winds are not your frend until you get used to them. with the output it all depends on what stattor you have and how you rewire it for your volts of choice. But do not be scared of meltdown this does not happen with the smart drive you could hook it up to your V8 and run it flat out it would live, the downside is its output does level off this is why it lives. vawts have to be huge to get good power but are great to look at and I think people driving by prefer them to hawts. great build so far shawn |
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| BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
Hello and Thank you My views on this has been we need to suck the live out of ever bit of low ground level and high level winds we can. If we can drive the cost of the units down we can off set the people of worlds cost of energy and make for a bettery live style for all. We have so much off the self stuff just laying around. If we assemble it in the right order we can make change. Bob Mann Below is my tree top mount and in the upper corner on top of the tree your will see my crows nest 90 ft up for testing. 
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Bob Very impressive, you must be watching those logging guys on the TV. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| shawn Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2010 Location: New ZealandPosts: 210 |
He He love your tower me and i bet most others have thought of doing that!! You had the guts to do it! just don't get hert it makes small wind power look bad for us all. |
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| BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
What till you see the zip line and the bungy cord for jumping add on,s. Bob Mann |
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niall1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2008 Location: IrelandPosts: 331 |
hi Bob i,ve never seen a small vawt strapped on to the top of a tree before..at least not with all its branches cut off and stand alone ...even then the swaying in high winds must put considerably greater stress on the unit ... watching your utube videos you seem to suggest that the gyroscopic element of the vawt seems to stabalise the tree top in high winds...... interesting you seem to have a commercial interest in this ...the vawt units are for sale to the general public ...yes ? there is a link on otherpower (i cant find it now ..but will ) that explains what a good productive wind site actually is ...its very sobering reading good luck with your sales ...i think i,ll stay away from trees though 
niall |
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| niall1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2008 Location: IrelandPosts: 331 |
i,m sorry for revisiting this again...but it just doesent sit right with me somehow glenn ..feel free to remove this ... Bob ...as you,ve put your company ? and sales pitch on utube it seems fair to comment please dont take it personally ...it,s just an opinion i think selling a small turbine for residential use (roof top, chimney etc.. ) seems very unfair ... i,ve added a link to one of your videos ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAie5QgPrWg&feature=player_em bedded i,d much rather watch utubes of guys climbing up 60 foot towers trying to squeeze the available wind energy out ...and wonder how they actually do it sorry...i,d say if you want pay back and profit from the grid never put a commercial wind turbine of any kind on the gable end of your house ..its a waste of your hard earned money .... build it yourself...thats different but niall |
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| BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
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| niall1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2008 Location: IrelandPosts: 331 |
quote " Yes I would love to sell my units all over but it takes a lot of work to do it and time. If you have build a better unit please post it so all can see." sorry Bob....cant match that my "unit" has sometimes over the years suffered some problems ....the elements haven't been kind over time but its my baby so i can repair it ..replace parts etc.. keep it running ..tweak it here and there i take it then your also providing long term on going support for your machines ... thats a good thing ...although sadly lacking in most wind commercial machines ... ps...if its ok to say it i think the high wind thing is a red herring...it only comes a few times a year and usually when your not at home or asleep ....i think its not worth waiting for.... but lets say for arguments sake the wind on that site you provided was consistant for a whole year ..  .....that,d give 44kwh for the year
what,s the cost of installation/maintenance for the unit ? quotes from your own web site ..a local newspaper interview i think The return on that investment could be about three to five years. Mann has been attending clean energy conferences trying to learn how to take advantage of available state and federal funds but said it has been difficult to get a foot in the door. mmmm.....grants and investors niall |
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| BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
Hello Sorry I jump at you I had a bad day . 2 weeks back I ordered a Winny Boy grid tie from solarhome.org they jerked me a round for 2 weeks on the unit witch I must have for the water tower test UL rated. I had to lock the Tree Top Wind Mill bank card. Than whent to Boston MA a Masschalange office meet a compete jerk there too. I know some times I am kind of in your face guy but I am old school just get it done. Bob Mann |
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| niall1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2008 Location: IrelandPosts: 331 |
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no worries bob..just chalk me off as one of those grumpy skeptics the windyboy seems a nice piece of kit ..it seems those and the power 1 are very popular here for grid tie people keep us updated on the tower installation.... niall |
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Perry Senior Member Joined: 19/11/2009 Location: Posts: 190 |
I tend to agree with Niall to an extent here. Most of us build these turbines as a hobby. From a business standpoint, small wind is a very tough nut to crack. Hard enough for a traditional HAWT placed up on a decent tower. Impossible for a roof mounted VAWT. Sorry bob, it's just not in the math. I have heard you speak before about capturing all the low wind speed energy. Problem is, there is no energy at low wind speeds. Take this particular 'customer' of yours. Given his numbers, The Mann Tree Top Turbine, mounted on a roof, makes about $4 worth of electricity per year, soaking in that low windspeed optimization. Maybe your 3 year return on investment will cover the cost of the turbine, assuming you sold it to him for $12. Not to be harsh Bob but most of us are hobbyists and you clearly represent yourself as a vendor that is selling turbines so you get the grown up treatment. Do you have any other performance information on your turbine that shows better performance? How much energy did you tell the water tank people it would make? Not trying to pile on here. You made a pretty neat little hobbyist turbine there but realize that you are talking to people that know wind here and the crazy ebay claims get routed out pretty quickly. When you state that your turbine pays for itself in 3-5 years, what were you basing that figure on? Perry |
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| BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
Hello I see you do fussy math were you are. My numbers are The Tree Top Wind Mill cut his bill by 27% For that month was 20 day =.9 KWH per day x 20 day = 18 / by 4.844 KWH = 27% of the bill. So please show me how you did your math. If i am doing this wrong some one please show how it should be done. The bill avg 30 days before wind turbine was 27 KWH turbine on for 20 days had made 4.844 KWH And that turbine is using the car type PMA 24 vlot unit with a belt drive. As I all was say show me what you have build with your own hands. Bob Mann |
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| Perry Senior Member Joined: 19/11/2009 Location: Posts: 190 |
Hello Bob, I never disputed that you made a neat little wind turbine, in fact I pointed that out. Here's my 'fuzzy' math: customer said your turbine made ~4.8 kWh in 2 months. Power cost, at least for me, 12 cents/kWh 4.8 * .12 = $.57/2 months or 29 cents a month....so for 1 yr you have $3.42/yr worth of electricity. Here's a link that shows what people are paying for grid electricity these days http://www.eia.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table5_6_b.html fuzzy? Maybe the customer is confused (or I am) as to what his true consumption is. According to him, he has a $3/month electric bill in the first place so maybe the turbine is doing better than this and he is quoting wrong numbers. If so, surprised you didn't catch it as the manufacturer before posting his e-mail as proof of your turbines success. That is why I asked for a clarification on your turbines performance. You've built and sold some of these and I assume you have at least one of your own for testing so I again will ask, how much energy per month does the Bob Mann tree top turbine produce? Perry |
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| niall1 Senior Member Joined: 20/11/2008 Location: IrelandPosts: 331 |
mmm... not to complicate things even more theres the little issue of power consumption in the grid invertor lets say 2watts ?... 2 watts equals 48 watt hours a day....thats 17.5 kwhs per year ....in the two months (less 10 days ) its been logged it wouldnt have even dented the grid tie yearly power requirement ? i,m not the best with math either but 17.5kwh ? correction here...i,m not right there ...that power loss would only apply when the mill is idle or just about to cut in ...so it would have to be factored down a bit...hard to know by how much is there any standby power requirement figure for the grid tie ? niall |
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| BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
Perry just do the math as it is posted is it right or not? I see you are big wind company man far from a hobbest. You link is wrong it dos not show the other fee's that are added to the bill I look at mine all the time. It can run 2x what the usage is in fee's. So I ask is the math right or wrong and show it please. As we are on fuzzy math if your company did not get Fed money and Grants and all the supplers for parts to build your big wind mills got no Fed money. and you still sell you power at the rate is to day. What would be the pay back time? Let me know. Bob Mann |
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| Perry Senior Member Joined: 19/11/2009 Location: Posts: 190 |
No, your math is not correct. According to the e-mail you posted the 'customer' said he ran the turbine from May 1st to Jun 29. Minus the 10 days the brake was on, that's more than the 20 days you quote in your calcs. So your turbine did not make the 4.8 kWhr in 20 days as you say, it made it in 50 days. Rerun your math and you will find about a %10 reduction. That is why I questioned the customers values he was giving. He is claiming to use 27 kWhr/month of electric power. You should question that it is so low. That's $3.24/month in electricity. You will find you are saving him %10, or like I said, about $4/yr. Just as a side note, the average power consumption for a house in the US is 890 kWh/mo. You should really check your customers reporting, he is using 1/30th of that. Not sure he is even reading the right values. What I am saying is you should look into that. Investigate whether you have the right numbers from him. Maybe your turbine is working way better than his numbers are showing. Link is not wrong...it is data. Fair enough point though. Let's say the costs are actually double......you have saved him $8/yr. |
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