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Forum Index : Windmills : My Effort At Making a Turbine
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paul_mac1 Regular Member  Joined: 17/05/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 74 |
Hi All, I scored this motor on Ebay, thinking it would be good for my new project:   
It creates 6.2 volts when turned by hand.....great!! It has 2 shafts, the short shaft is 5/8" in diameter, and the longer shaft is 20mm Diameter, so I plan on getting a 5/8th Arbor to mount the hub on. BUT when I put my multimeter on AMPS, it becomes REALLY REALLY hard to turn by hand, although it does produce 1.32Amps by hand. Is this normal to become so hard to turn? I have been in contact with Windy Nation and they recommend I use their 5 Blade Hyper Spin System, which I was looking at anyway, but I fear I will need a hurricane to get the blades spinning 
What are your thoughts on this please? (Be gentle on me tho  )
Also, do I need to waterproof the housing and brush area with it being DC voltage? Regards, Paul |
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| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Paul Looks like a good bit of good gear but the blades you mention will have a hard time driving it to any reasonable output. The reason that it is hard to turn when you put the amp meter on the output is because you are in fact shorting out the output through your meter, in practice it will have no load on it until it exceeds the battery voltage its connected to as it would be isolated by a diode in the line to stop reverse current flow. The loading the blades will see is what you feel when turning it without the wires connected to anything. I would look at the 80 inch five blade combo that they offer if you are going to go with their blades for better spin up torque. You may also need a dc/dc down converter to get the best out of it as I see it is rated at 180 volts so its output may be around 80 volts at reasonable speed as the windy city blades are designed to do. I think it would be well suited for a 48 volt battery, but others on the forum will have all sorts of ideas so listen to all and do the best suiting what you want. See if you can set it up a drive to it to try it at various rpm's and volts and amps that will give you the best indication of what it can and cant do. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| paul_mac1 Regular Member Joined: 17/05/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 74 |
Hi Bob, Thanks for your reply. Hmmmm, I was hoping to have a cheap starter project. Batteries won't be a problem, as I know someone who has a bank of batteries from a power station, 130ah (when one battery goes faulty they replace the whole bank), so 48v would be ok. Thanks again, Regards. Paul |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Paul Its a good motor, and should be ok. I tend to disagree with Bob a little though. Its rated at 180v at 4000rpm. These motors make a little less when used as a generator than a motor, so if you spun it at 4000rpm I would expect maybe 150 volts. Now a windmill will run at 100 to 1000 rpm, depending on diameter and blade design. This motor would make ( approx ) 0.0375 volts per RPM ( 4000rpm / 150volts ), so it will start charging a 12v battery at 320 RPM, not to bad. 24v is 640 rpm, too high! Stick to a 12v system. You could make a set of blades from timber or PVC to get you going, try a diameter of 1.5 to 2 meters and see how it goes. Also its worth looking at the PVC and Aluminium blades offed by Jabar and Fillm. Bobs right about the amp meter, it feels harder to spin because the ampmeter is loading it electrically. With a 12v battery, it wont feel loaded until it reaches 320rpm. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| paul_mac1 Regular Member Joined: 17/05/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 74 |
Hi Glenn, Thank you for your reply also. I have decided to get the larger shaft turned down and a 1/2" thread put on it and fasten the hub with a couple of nyloc nuts and load washers, so the brushes and wiring will be at the back of the motor, allowing the wiring to be out of the way of the motor. What do you think of this? If I get a couple of 12v 130ah deep cycle batteries and put them in parallel giving 12v and 260ah, would this affect the load speed on the rotor? Or does it just work on voltage.....sorry, all this is new to me. Regards, Paul |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi Paul I wouldn't machine down the shaft if you can help it, its a better idea to buy a pulley or hub to suit the existing shaft size, there's a lot of stress on that shaft so you dont want to weaken it. That motor is rated at 2.2kw ( 2200 watts ), but as a windmill it will only make maybe 200 watts tops. This means its under-rated, and wont need those cooling holes. I would block them off to keep water out, and your brushes will last longer. Just leave a small hole at the bottom somewhere to let any moisture escape. 12 volts batteries in parallel is still 12 volts, so it wont affect the cut in speed. But start small, dont invest too much in batteries until your got a working windmill. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| paul_mac1 Regular Member Joined: 17/05/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 74 |
Hi Glenn. Thanks for your advice. OK, I can use the smaller size shaft which is 5/8" and Windy Nation sells an arbor to fit on this size shaft. All other ideas welcome. As for batteries, someone I know used to work at a power station, and if a battery went bad, they would just replace the whole bank, and this guy used to buy them off the co, find the bad one, dispose of it and use the rest for solar/wind projects of his own, so he has a few 12v 130ah deep cycle batteries lying around........  and I have parts from an old project that he wants.....so I feel a deal coming off.
The motor I have is 15kg, so I will have to build a sturdy mount for it, or the mrs won't be happy if it falls and cuts the dogs head off 
I'll keep you posted on the progress....excited now. Regards, Paul |
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Andy R. Newbie  Joined: 07/05/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 18 |
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| paul_mac1 Regular Member Joined: 17/05/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 74 |
Hi Andy R. Did you video it
Its always funny when it happens to someone else...hehe! Good luck with your project. Regards, Paul |
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| Andy R. Newbie Joined: 07/05/2010 Location: United StatesPosts: 18 |
No Paul, no vid. I burned it up in high wind and it's in the shop. Still learning. LOL! |
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MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
[Quote=paul_mac1]All other ideas welcome. Before you turn a thread on this or any other shaft, remember that this will not run "true". After cut, it can be "trued" but otherwise it'll wobble. This won't matter much at low speeds, but the higher the rpm, the more noticeable the wiggle will be. Also, since this is likely not going to be your first build, you might start saving your pennies to buy a lathe. With a lathe, you can chuck up a motor shaft, anchor the body and spin it at various rpm to check its output. This is very handy as it allows you to work as if you had 3 or 4 pair of hands! Everything I build is teensy-weensy (by choice) and my lathe originally cost something like $400. I stripped it down and changed almost everything to meet my own needs (it runs off a 12-volt garden tractor battery now), but for spinning a motor like I'm talking about, even a little lathe like mine will work like a champ. Food for thought. Don't get discouragd, by the way. Even though you're apparently just starting out, we're all in the same boat so to speak. I've likely been at this for more years than you've been breathing air and I'm still struggling to build a silly low-speed generator. Hang in there; you're in the right place. Lots of brainy folks on this 4m! . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
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| paul_mac1 Regular Member Joined: 17/05/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 74 |
Thanks for that Mac. Ive removed the seals from the bearings, and now it really does run smoother and free-er 
BUT the person I bought it off put the small metal coil things that hold pressure on the brushes in the wrong way, so when I pulled them out, one came out in 2 parts.....bummer! Does anyone have any ideas as to where to get these things from? or what is a suitable replacement? Next step is to remove the stand, its welded on, so the angle grinder may come in handy, as the weight of the motor is off centre, if you know what I mean. I am thinking about making a mount and attaching the motor to this and building the tail fin into the mount. I'll post some pics asap. Regards, Paul |
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Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Can you post a photo of the "little metal coil thing" thats broken. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| paul_mac1 Regular Member Joined: 17/05/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 74 |
Here you go Pete: 
The top one is the broken one, the bottom one is how it should look. Regards, Paul |
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| Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Gee never seen any thing quite like that. I had wondered if you could use the spring retainer from a starter motor but havent seen any like those. Send the seller a email and say you had trouble with the motor and on inspection you found a broken brush retainer clip. Under ebay rules he should replace it or send a replacement part. If you dont ask in this world you dont get. Worth the cost of an email i would think. sorry cant offer any surgestions of what to replace it with. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
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| paul_mac1 Regular Member Joined: 17/05/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 74 |
OK, well......My 5 Hyperspin Blades, Hub and Arbor have turned up from Windy Nation, 1 week from ordered to delivered, that's pretty good, as they came to Adelaide from the US. I am just making a mount, to mount the motor on, it looks like I will have to cut the metal stand that's welded onto the motor off, as the weight is off centre. Am I best off just using a car hub and bearings from Supercheap Auto or what? Or am I best just manufacturing a plate with a bar that inserts into a bearing assembly? Regards, Paul |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Paul The stub axle and bearings works well, the brush springs can be made from some modelers spring wire available from aircraft model shops, you make a pin jig and wrap several turns around the pin to duplicate the shape and size of the original, I am assuming the brushes have a pig tail wire attached, if not you will have to make one by soldering pig tail wire to a piece of copper and place it under the spring in good contact with the top of the brush, this is necessary as the spring wire will heat and soften if you run much current through it. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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| paul_mac1 Regular Member Joined: 17/05/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 74 |
Thanks for that Bob, I'll get down to Supercheap Auto in the morning and get this built. If I was to use this set up with a GTI, would I be better getting a battery to use as a buffer, or straight to the GTI? Regards, Paul |
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| paul_mac1 Regular Member Joined: 17/05/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 74 |
OK, here's a pic of my blades from Windy Nation: 
I also got an arbor to mount the blades onto the motor shaft, fits like a glove. The problem I now have, is that I don't have access to welding gear, and the motor has a stand spot welded to the outer frame, as shown in the picture below, But the weight is off centre would it be worth removing the stand somehow and attaching the casing directly to some sort of mount or just leave it as it is?
The smaller shaft on the left is the side the blades go on, but the stand is off centre, would this matter? As long as the head of the mill is level horizontally, it should have no problems in turning into the wind, right? Next problem is mounting it onto a pole. What is the best set-up for a bearing mounted onto a pole? Thanks Guys. Regards, Paul |
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| brucedownunder2 Guru Joined: 14/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1548 |
Hi Paul , the stand will be ok left where it is ,I've a couple of those motors , that stand saves you lots of welding work which ,by the way, you would have to remove most of the "innagds" before welding. mounting on a pole ,, try a flat plate ,say 1/4 inch thick mounted on a pipe..put a collar on the pipe and it then slides into the mast pipe and revolves ,easy, feed you wiring down the inner pipe and untwist every few weeks ,plenty of info ,just read about it on this forum. Bruce Bushboy |
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