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wallablack Senior Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164
Posted: 12:35pm 03 Sep 2012
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My home installation is about to undergo major reconstructions with the introduction of a big battery bank, and soon a solar hot water install, with intentions of running a majority of my home off grid with the use of grid power when required, but this is not to be discussed here as it is a whole new kettle of fish and could go anywhere.
I want to know a bit on the following installations requirements.
I have spent some time researching the following installations conditions but want to take it to the people as researching this only leads to a LOT of "opinions" about installations. We like opinions and discussion but facts are what stops fires, dead people and the official knock on the door.
Keeping permitts such as planning permitts and building permitts etc aside as that is up to your own council.
Also assuming that all cables and connectors etc are correctly rated.
Also for arguments sake and to stop the discussion wandering lets assume I am installing (although I'm not) an OFF GRID 1 x 1KW Turbine and 1KW Solar at 24V DC.
What are the laws on the following installation components:
WIND: Raising a Wind Turbine Tower and running the 3 cables to the base of the tower? Assuming the materials used for the installation follow guidlines set out by builing permitts ie steel for the tower, concrete foundations.
WIND: Connecting the AC wires to a rectifier.
WIND & SOLAR: Connecting all of the DC components (Charge Controller, Dump Loads etc) to an installation excluding the DC to AC inverter.
WIND & SOLAR: Does one need a, I think I read this, a low voltage licence? At what voltage DC does this licence START, meaning that, I might be allowed to install 24V DC but not allowed to install 96V DC.
Can I connect all of the batteries on the bank together myself?
WIND & SOLAR: Do the components, ie Charge Controllers, Rectifiers, Brake Switches, Dump Loads need to be Certified/Australian Standards Aproved/Licenced/Tested/ Approved by X or anything like that?
Obviously a DC to AC inverter needs a licenced techy to install it to your mains so appliances etc can draw from it. Can I use just a normal sparky?
Does a DC to AC inverter with it's own output plugs need a licenced techy to install it to the battery bank?
Does the installation of 12 volt DC lights need the services of a sparky? If this was an on grid home is the existing AC wiring used for this installation?
If there is anything missed as far as installations requirements please add to this.Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools.
Barry T Coles Senior Member Joined: 30/07/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 109
Posted: 04:25pm 03 Sep 2012
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Hi Walla
The ultimate answer to your question is what will insurance pay out on if & when something goes wrong.
You could do the low voltage install yourself but if anything goes haywire & you make a claim & you are not an accredited installer or working under someone who is accredited then your claim would be knocked back.
Insurance companies don’t like paying out if they can get away with it.
Quote:
“Obviously a DC to AC inverter needs a licensed techy to install it to your mains so appliances etc can draw from it. Can I use just a normal sparky?” Unquote”
Regulations vary from state to state but in general any connection made where the grid is connected it must be overseen by a licensed electrical contractor; an example of this is the company I work for employs perhaps 200 qualified electricians through out the state none of which holds an electrical contractors licence, the company holds that licence under the name of one of its most senior electrical engineers.
I know this doesn’t make life easy for you when trying to keep costs down but the only real option is to be self insured that way only you get the blame & the bill.
Cheers
Barry
I need to learn from the mistakes of others.
I dont have the time to make them all myself.
wallablack Senior Member Joined: 10/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 164
Posted: 02:02am 04 Sep 2012
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Me of all people to be asking these questions.
We had 1.5 metres of water go through our home in Jan 2011 with the Vic floods and I am still fighting the insurance company via the obmudsen. Apparently water from a flooded river isn't flood water.
Good information Barry, thanks for your input. Foolproof systems do not take into account the ingenuity of fools.
Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904
Posted: 03:58am 04 Sep 2012
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The way I was told here in WA a licenced electrician (of which I am one) can do mains work on their *own* house without requiring a contractor's licence. The official paperwork still needs to be completed if new additions are to be connected to the grid.
Many years ago I inquired as to how to get a contractor's licence and was told by the relevant authorities there are already contractors in my area and I would not be successful with my application.
I gave up then as it appeared to me a union closed shop type arrangement that had nothing to do with qualifications of performing electrical work. For example, the holder of the contractor's licence does *not* have to be a licenced electrician, it could be the shop's tea lady for that matter.
Perhaps it has changed by now, I should hope so.
Bureaucracy gone mad IMO, I'm glad I'm retired now and out of that.Klaus
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 12:33pm 04 Sep 2012
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Much of this is highly dependent on State government laws and regulations, and on whatever an insurance company decides to write into their particular policy.
So very much depends on where you are, and your particular circumstances.
An internet Forum is probably not the best place to seek advice.
For instance, in Victoria the current Baileu Victorian State Government has just introduced very strong new legislation to totally ban any new wind turbine if any neighbor within two kilometers raises an objection.
State and local governments may place some very strange and unreasonable restrictions that you can only discover by asking directly.
Insurance companies pretty much do whatever they want, their one single purpose for existence is profit.Cheers, Tony.
mac46 Guru Joined: 07/02/2008 Location: United StatesPosts: 412
Posted: 01:03pm 04 Sep 2012
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Visit others who have operating systems...ask lots of questions...understand how things work and why they work the way they do.
As far as meeting "all" the codes and regulations...well good luck with this one.
Mac46I'm just a farmer
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 01:07pm 04 Sep 2012
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Any grid connected system MUST NOT put power into the grid if the grid goes down. This is for the safety of anyone working on the grid. So any inverter would need to meet safety requirements and need to be installed by someone qualified to do so in your location.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333
Posted: 05:23pm 05 Sep 2012
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Quite simply any low voltage system AC or DC can be installed by any fool you like and no licence required.
Although some basic understandings of installations would be advised.
Your windmill connections fall into the low voltage range and yes you can do that yourself.
The only part you are not permitted to do is the connection from the inverter to the mains.
If your inverter has mains plugs on it (it do not require mains hard wiring) then i doubt it would be on the list of approved inverters and not be legal to use for a GTI anyway, so regardless who installed it, it can not be signed off on the paperwork.
All GTI used must be on the list of approved inverters for use in Austraila.
If the inverter is for Off Grid use, then its up to you what you choose to use for a inverter, but it must not back feed to the grid.Sometimes it just works
Rastus Guru Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301
Posted: 05:18am 02 Oct 2012
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Hi Wallablack and freinds,I've been able to rejoin the community care of an NBN dish due to the communication black hole surounding me.For mills,in the SW district of Vic the comments about neighbour objections even exstend to land that has stock and crop production without dwellings on site.A licenced electrician is not qualified to perform off grid installation without a specific off grid certificate,he also needs another creditation to install sola panels.These tradesmen are rare because most work on grid so there is 1 in Ballarat,1 in Horsham,1 Edenhope and 1 in Mt Gambier.It is very time consuming dealing with them and results are spasmotic.I guess when you have the game sown up....come in spinner!If you hav't been frustrated yet? share a little of mine!!Cheers Rastus
see Rastus graduate advise generously
Madness Guru Joined: 08/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2498
Posted: 10:32am 02 Oct 2012
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Welcome to the nanny state, the government (of any political persuasion) must and will protect us from ourselves not matter what the cost is to us.
You may be able to find someone who is qualified to install the solar panels who is not an electrician. I know someone here in Qld who was doing solar installs, he could do everything up to the point of connecting it to the 240 volt mains. That part had to completed by an electrician.There are only 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Rastus Guru Joined: 29/10/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 301
Posted: 05:54am 03 Oct 2012
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Hi Madness,electricians can be very reluctant to sign off on work they havn't done personally.Quite understandable when taking into account that a significant number of installations completed by qualified tradesmen,do not pass independant final inspections by shire, council and industry accreditted personnel.Without being to cynical if the electrician and final inspector have a good repore it could lend to a favorable outcome,while those that don't probably have most of their jobs "canned" until further works are carried out.I'm not trying to cut to close to any bones,the real world is not what it should be but a practical take of it.Cheers Rastussee Rastus graduate advise generously
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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