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Forum Index : Windmills : add a wind turbine into my existing solar
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tzr250 Newbie  Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: Posts: 4 |
I currently have a 1.5kw solar system, with a 2kw inverter. The solar system in full sun peaks at approx 1100 - 1250w (I'm assuming inherit losses in the system), therfore i have abpout 750W to play with until the inverter is maxxed out. I would like to add a wind generator in series to the solar panels, therefore creating maximum energy back into the grid, as well as at night. I'm not really fussed about authorities or regulators catching on, because lets face it, the chance of anyone identifing the fact that I'm creating credits at night, is highly unlikely, and anyway, why not? My questions is, can I simply add my wind generator to the fancy little plug on the last solar panel, thus adding another energy generating source? if it aint broke............. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru  Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Tzr While it can be done, your method would create a dangerous system ready to kill you or someone else. If you must have extra make a low voltage stand alone system, or spend your money on a couple of extra panels fitted to the existing system, but do not play with high voltage DC or you may not be on the Forum for long, the system you have would probably have 250 to 350 volts DC and mishandled that's enough to kill in a few seconds. All the best Bob 
Foolin Around |
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Tinker Guru Joined: 07/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
Connecting a wind generator in *series* with solar panels is, IMO, a *really* bad idea. Back to the drawing board  .Klaus |
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| tzr250 Newbie Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: Posts: 4 |
Ok, so it seems it would be a bad idea? Can you please explain why? Whats the difference between adding another couple of panels as opposed to a wind generator? the way i see it is solar panels / generator, all = voltage, so what am I missing? the system is currently generating in excess of 200V as is, and I'm still here, so if done correctly, what would be the biggie? Taking into consideration full sun and high winds do not occur often (although, it does happen!), and only one source is generating voltage at night, I'm failing to see the concern. If series is a bad idea, what about parallel? Can I plug the wind generator into the spare plug on the inverter? I'm sure there must be alternate options and methods. This is a forum, so lets talk about them. I'm asking for knowledge from people whom are more knowledgeable that me, hence the question. if it aint broke............. |
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vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
If you go over the specifications of a transistor, you can burn it. I see you have an array of panels. Every panel is a semiconductor with his own specifications. If you overrate them, you burn them. Is not like the water passing by tubes... http://encyclobeamia.solarbotics.net/articles/solar_cell.htm l Are far more fragile than a coil inside a windmill alternator. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| tzr250 Newbie Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: Posts: 4 |
OK, so if I were to introduce the wind generator BEFORE the solar panels, then this would solve the problem. if it aint broke............. |
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| vasi Guru Joined: 23/03/2007 Location: RomaniaPosts: 1697 |
Protect the solar panels at least with high amperage diodes (I guess you already have it) which let the voltage flow in one direction protecting also the battery from discharging when panels are not producing. Your turbine voltage is not going directly to battery. Is transformed in DC current by bridge rectifiers (same amperage as the diode from solar panels). The cables from the windmill and solar panels are meeting together (in parallel) after the diode and the bridge rectifier. But better having separate controllers (or a controller which can manage both connections separately) for each solar panels and windturbine as windturbine needs a dumpload as protection when battery is full. Panels don't need that. Well, you need a connection schematic. Hobbit name: Togo Toadfoot of Frogmorton Elvish name: Mablung Miriel Beyound Arduino Lang |
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| tzr250 Newbie Joined: 13/09/2011 Location: Posts: 4 |
There is no battery. It is connect to grid. Whats the difference between solar gernerated and wind generated voltage? All the inverter sees is voltage? if it aint broke............. |
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| VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539 |
Hi Tzr The simplest way to do what you want would be to have a high voltage wind generator say around 250 volts and rectify its output to DC and parallel feed your Inverter, but the same goes to say unless you are familiar with high voltage DC it could be a health hazard. The other way is to use three transformers to boost the voltage say 12 volts to 240 volts then 3 phase rectify to high voltage DC to feed the Inverter. this would require isolating diodes and safety switches as well. True that voltage is voltage but the voltage from a PV stack is fairly constant but the voltage from a wind turbine is dependent on wind and load conditions and the two do not mix all that well. The dump load Vasi mentioned is still needed as in high winds the output of a wind Turbine could exceed the voltage spec of the Inverter and let the magic smoke out. To be brutally honest the questions you are asking show that you have not yet achieved the level of understanding required to do this sort of thing yet. It is a learning curve with you at the start of it and it is not the usual thing discussed on open forum for safety reasons, I would again suggest that you start to learn the works by using low voltage 12 - 24 volts and a piggyback GFI to start with. Unless you live in a high average wind area you will find the results disappointing and disproportionate to the money invested, the better option is to get several extra PV units fitted to the existing system. Sorry to be negative but I would hate to see you or a family member like the Irish electrician ( Burnt brown and hanging from the ceiling) By all means keep asking questions and learning and all the forum members will help answer questions for you, the only bad question is one not asked. All the best Bob Foolin Around |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1344 |
Another thing to consider, say the grid goes down and your inverter will short the PV panels so no output will go to the grid. Now if it's blowing a gale and your wind generator is making heaps of power EXPECT you grid tie inverter to burst into flames. In a general sense when a wing generator is connected to a batterybank the voltage is clamped to the battery voltage. When the batteries are fully charged a dumpload comes into play to get rid of the wind generators extra power. Now which the setup you propose IF the grid goes down WHERE will that extra power go???? Cheers Bryan |
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Poss Newbie Joined: 27/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 30 |
Could you use one of the Latronics turbine controllers then into the Grid Connect Inverter?? A brave man may not live for long, but a careful man does not live at all. |
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Don B Senior Member  Joined: 27/09/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 190 |
Hi TZR250 A few general comments that might help: The only way that you can connect a wind generator to feed in to your system is for it to be in parallel with the PV panels. As there is no battery,your PV panels will presumably not have a diode in series with them to avoid reverse current when it is dark. They would need a series diode with a suitable voltage and current rating to work in parallel with your wind generator. A wind generator would presumably have a bridge diode to rectify the AC that it produces into DC, so that, if these diodes was suitably voltage rated, it could be connected directly across the panels plus diode Note, however, that it would not contribute any power until its voltage output exceeds that of the solar panels plus diode. If, as you indicate, the PV panel voltage is around 200V, then your wind generator would need to output something above this DC voltage to contribute power. It would be surprising indeed if you could find a wind generator capable of outputting this order of voltage. Not only would it be unusual, but DC voltage of this level has to be treated with a lot of respect, and it is not an area for amateur tinkering. The previous comment about the inverter shorting the PV panels in the event that the grid power goes down is unlikely. There is no need to short circuit PV panels in this circumstance, and they would ordinarily just be left to float up to their open circuit voltage. If you did have a wind generator connected across an inverter that disconnected itself from the grid, then your wind generator would have no load, and would possibly overspeed. You would therefore need a controller associated with your wind generator that could divert power from the wind generator to a dump load in this circumstance, plus maybe furling for extreme wind speed. Again, it would be surprising indeed if you could find a controller designed to operate at around 200V, unless it was part of a package intended to work with your PV panels and inverter. Maybe somebody makes such a set-up, but I stress that it would need to be something properly designed for this function. It could not readily be contrapted out of disparate bits and pieces, and the voltages that are involved are lethal and are not the place for experimenting. Its a worthy concept though. Regards Don B |
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BobMann Senior Member Joined: 30/06/2011 Location: United StatesPosts: 134 |
Hello this may help on the turbine side if the grid go,s down. Hello In testing of my Tree Top Wind Mill with my new Mann Smart Drive witch is a VAWT I too came to what if I lose the grit and the turbine runs wild. See The night be for Huricanne Irene I had desighed to let it run and make power in the 80+ MPH winds on my water tower test site. I buyed 2 MCG defnite pupose contactors MCDP403 G6 for $27 USD each 3 phase in and out with a 110 coil to pull down contact bar. I cut the top off a little and cut the other to be mount on top of the one that was open one. set the springs in side on the high side to push up when the 110 coil lost power from the grid it would snap up and make contact in the other relay body. I split the 3 phase coming from the turbine to both relays in side . On the top relay on the out side of the relay I ran it into two 500 watt flood lights out side pointing to the VAWT. It worked like a dream. Here is the turbine at work http://youtu.be/EyhnGlPnwsM Bob Mann |
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| MasterCATZ Regular Member  Joined: 25/03/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 52 |
I have an solaredge system does anyone know if they have some way to add in a wind system ( as the main 5kw transformer takes in AC Power and Combines it from the other smaller inverters attached to the solar pannels ) due to west facing panels we hardly even touch 4 kw on a clear perfet day and would like to install a smaller ~500watt wind system ( I think the solar edge mini inverters were 250watt ea ) unfortunalty the new 5kw limit energex gave us it stoped us from adding the aditional solar pannels (21 ~230watt astro panels installed )to boost it up from the 20% loss to the full 5kw at the inverter I noticed the main transformer starts working around 300~500 watts to feed the grid so i am hoping a smaller wind generator should feed it during the night ... |
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