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Catch66
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Joined: 13/03/2010
Location: United States
Posts: 27

Posted: 02:39am 27 Feb 2011

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Hello all,
I reworded this post. and resubmitted.

stator I purchased from the states.

It has 36 poles with a count of 16 magnets.

I mic. the coil wire its .023".
Can Anyone I.D. what motor this might be.
what would best suit output configuration.
I'll try and upload picture.

The staggered stator arrangement looks like a winner for
my 12v system. My prop diam. 51" 5 blade.
We have good winds here.10 to 20 regularly.

After reading the staggered stator articles. It sounds right.
for my application.I read of the 42 pole.

Could someone advice to combination, best suited.
1 of 5 & 3 of 7..... or 1 of 4 3 of 6..
have no idea to wire resistance ect..for rewire.

I do have 2 large rectifiers which will probably be mounted up
on mast.Originally after posting about distance, was going to bring
it down as a/c which I agree with response that it was better to rectify
at house. But would have to run 3 more wires to inside through conduit.

Thanks for any suggestions as I have been testing furling and tower
with a 30v Ametek, which I'm satisfied with and now ready for F & P.

Thanks,
Chuck

Edited by Catch66 2011-03-01

windlight
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Joined: 03/03/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 331

Posted: 12:49pm 01 Mar 2011

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I don't know why but this seems to be lonely, I am no F&F expert but sure looks like one to me http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/WhatFP.asp

allan

"I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV).

Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301

Posted: 03:30pm 01 Mar 2011

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Hi Chuck,
I'll stick my neck out and say it's a third generation 60s F&P unit,reference info w.w.w.ecoinnovation.co.nz under the category of Manuals.The reason for this claim is the F&P 60s wire diam. is aprox .6mm/.024" close enough!
cheers Rastus

see Rastus graduate advise generously

Catch66
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Joined: 13/03/2010
Location: United States
Posts: 27

Posted: 06:53pm 04 Mar 2011

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windlight..Rastus:

thanks for reply's.
I'll do more searching in arcives for the 60 series staggered rewire.

With the 36 poles and the 16 magnets, If this is a 3rd generation unit then.
As all the poles are rounded.

In rewiring the stator to staggered configuration.any suggestions as to best
configurations of groups.

A Great forum here. thanks again.
from snowy'cold Montana.Edited by Catch66 2011-03-06

Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301

Posted: 12:22pm 06 Mar 2011

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Hi Chuck,
I think it's a second generation 60ss F&P,taking into account your round pole note!The round poles improve the motor by reducing "cogging" so the rotor runs feely.For generators this is a significant feature.The blades should turn in the least amount of breeze.I havn't seen 1,only read about them.As far as wiring options for 12v,I'd consider matching it to your 5 blade rpm range.I'm also hoping this post will increase traffic and assistance for you! cheers Rastus

see Rastus graduate advise generously

mid north Matt

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Joined: 06/01/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 58

Posted: 12:59pm 06 Mar 2011

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hi Chuck
check at the front page under what f and p is it,you should find all the answers there,as to which is the best rewire its a matter of try different combinations till it does what you want.myself i use appliance power cords on each group of 3/6/9 coils and play with it till im happy then wire it permently.a stationary motor with a few different size pulleys is good for working out cutin rpm's and expected power output

Pt Wakefield Matt

Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301

Posted: 02:55pm 07 Mar 2011

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Hi Chuck,
I've noticed the terms I've used are confusing ,so to clear things up, the 60s(series) are the F&P third generation motors.The round poles are classed as a 60ss F&P because of improvements.Becoming a 60ss(series second) stator.The coil wire size for both is the same.Matt's advise on wiring selection comes from practicl exsperience!You won't better that.Cheers Rastus

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Catch66
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Joined: 13/03/2010
Location: United States
Posts: 27

Posted: 12:21am 13 Mar 2011

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Thanks:for your time and input.
Rastus & mid north Matt..

Curious if this configuration on a F & P can be wired As part Star for low wind's
But also be wired for the remainder of Coils in Delta. Is this possible.
We have lots of high winds here.
I have searched on site,found a rewire where it was wired star or Delta.
but not running them together.
Hey I am a true nubbie here, not so much with the Mechanics but the Wiring.
Any help or steering in direction for this 36 pole, appreciated.

This is a great site.
Thanks,
Chuck

Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301

Posted: 12:17pm 14 Mar 2011

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Hi Chuck,
There is an article at, YourGreenDream-Fisher&paykel Generators/Alternators that illustrates star/delta wiring of one unit(motor)into switching gear.Changing between star and delta is done manually,reference is made to the controls being electronic but no furhter details are provided.Again I'd have to "pass the Buck" over to more learned people than myself.All the same you might find this reference helpfull,cheers Rastus

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Tinker

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Joined: 07/11/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1904

Posted: 02:04pm 14 Mar 2011

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If the star configuration and the delta configuration each have their own rectifier sets I can't see why not. Then you'd only connect the DC 0output together.

I would not even entertain the idea to connect the AC ends of star & delta coil configurations together.
Hope that helps...

Klaus

VK4AYQ
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Joined: 02/12/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2539

Posted: 02:10pm 14 Mar 2011

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Hi All

One star delta device I have been experimenting with is a combination of Glenn's dump load circuit and a 5 inch computer cooling fan, The fan is rewired to be used as a generator loading into a 150 ohm wire wound resistor, as the wind drives it faster the voltage increases till it trips the controller and pulls in a star delta change over relay. A few mods on the voltage divider worked, and I had an old wire wound 5 watt 500 ohm pot so I could vary the load on the fan. Mounting it on the old 4x4 and driving up and down the runway I was able to get it working without much drama.

It could be done electronically with a A to D converter but thats a bit beyond me so my simple complicated thing was easier for me.

The fan is mounted in a 5 inch poly pipe with a tail vane with down feed through a old alternator shaft minus the armature but using the slip rings to allow rotation and the original bearings and shaft for the rotator.

Cost:- Alternator from the tip $0
computer fan ebay $5
Poly pipe from local irrigation supplier off cut bit enough to make 4 units $5

Glens controller about $10 in parts and one burnt finger.
Mounting a piece of pipe from the junk box with a plug turned to suit the small bearing and the brush holder out of the old alternator regulator.

Note:- tried a 4 inch fan but wasn't a success, maybe a different one would have worked.

One I made years ago used a 12 volt blower motor out of a car heater with a model airplane propeller on the shaft, about 15 inch from memory. It was used to measure wind speed but wasn't real accurate for that application but would be ok for this one only thing was it generated a bit too much electricity in high winds, around 2 amps if my memory serves me correctly.

Just some ideas for you to throw around.

The star delta relay I picked up at a garage sale, it had a 240 volt coil so I rewound the coil to work on 12 volt, could be 24 volt also with more turns, 10% the turns of the 240 volt coil, it needs a series resistor to limit current and adjust the drop out voltage, old resistive controller from car heater, heavy wire wound pot.

Did I end up using it "NO" I found that delta with a boost converter worked better and was cheaper and simpler.

All the best

Bob

Foolin Around

Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301

Posted: 02:40pm 14 Mar 2011

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Hi Tinker,
You are correct,the AC coils are not all connected together.With the switches open they are wired as star,closed switches produces delta.The wiring diagram only alows for one configuration at a time.If you check the reference and it's flawed I'd be gratefull to know asap.I don't want to mis-inform anyone,or be mislead myself.Anxiously waiting for news Rastus,
Hi Bob,
Exsperience speaks volumes,Looks like Chuck will be asking for more info from you soon,Cheers Rastus

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Catch66
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Joined: 13/03/2010
Location: United States
Posts: 27

Posted: 01:15am 21 Mar 2011

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Thanks Rastus,

The site you suggested a good interesting read where they used switches to actually change star to Delta. I guess my question relates to wiring a Unit in star for low speed then when wind increases have the Delta wired coils come up for higher end performance.

I have also been finding older articles on staggered stators...most rewires are using the 80 series.

If I am coming to grips with this style of rewire. the more coil counts say 5x3 (15 coils)or 6x3 (18 coils) that the less coil counts, in star means earlier cut in. And With a say 9s (9 coils) all remaining tied, for low end system.having the early start up for low winds.

How close is the Nubbie coming to grips.

Help appreciated.

Chuck

Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301

Posted: 11:30am 21 Mar 2011

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Hi Chuck,
You are correct.Staggered stators produce different cut in speeds.Kluas supported your idea of splitting the stator star-delta with separate rectifiers.You could ask for wiring suggestions.Gordon, who wrote the staggered wiring article is a senior member who's advise would prove invaluable.Bob added details that will allow the mill to be run in star for low rpm then switched by relay to delta at higher cut in speeds.Doing this maximises amperage over the entire mill operation.You will have no trouble getting low amps in light wind star because your 5 blades will have plenty of torque,I would be looking at including delta too because of your high wind location.I feel Bobs exsperience would be my first choice,so I'd ask more questions about wiring,mill to rectifier,relay to controller ect.The relay makes the switch electricle rather than manual like the reference illustrated.It seems you are making headway and I want to encourage you to keep at it.Having the forum as a support network is great!Cheers Rastus

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Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 5078

Posted: 12:51pm 21 Mar 2011

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I might just make a little correction here. The staggered stator idea and article was put together by me, http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/StaggeredStator s.asp.

Gordon did a lot of the work on using cap doublers, a different approach that achieves a similar result. http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/GordonsCapMod.a sp

Either way makes better use of low wind speeds.

Glenn

The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now.
JAQ

KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178

Posted: 02:27am 22 Mar 2011

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Hmm

5 blades I'd be thinking you're looking for higher speeds and good startup
the 60S for 12V configurations is hard work and the cap doubler untested at these lower voltages (but still might work)

I'd be going for this in delta 100% -if you have a reasonable wind resource and intend putting it on a pole.

http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/images/42Pole7X2CDelta.g if
reason being the fact that its a 60S and cutin will be no issue whatsoever -even in delta.

This is about the second toughest re-wire next to parallelling the lot.

Some notes +12V systems will produce some big AMPS from time to time
start thinking 30A so your rectifier will need to be large, robust and have a good heatsink. (ebay!)

-on those grounds I'd be mounting the rectifiers on the mill head

Slip rings will be an issue to handle that current and to make matters even more complicated you'll need to find flexible cable of at least 6.0mm2

-look for some Monster speaker cable I'd say would be cheapest and most readily available.

keep batteries close to the load and run as much cable to the mill as you can afford.
I run 16mm2 and if I had my time again I would have used twice that.

Luck favours the well prepared

Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301

Posted: 02:18pm 22 Mar 2011

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Hi Glen,
I'm very sorry about mis-directing due credit to you as the author of the staggered stator article.Please accept my aplology.Cheers Rastus

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Catch66
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Joined: 13/03/2010
Location: United States
Posts: 27

Posted: 03:27am 26 Mar 2011

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KarlJ:

Thanks for the link.. after reading the rewiring will each 6 wires in Delta need separate rectifier's.

or will they be wired to have 6 wires merge as 3.

Thanks so much for any help,
Chuck

I found this wiring diagram that shows Delta now I'll have to wrap around
the lay out for a while to grasp...

Thanks.
Chuck

http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2982&PN =9Edited by Catch66 2011-03-28

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