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As stated in earlier posts. I am putting the wind turbine for use in town area,s on the back shelf and investigating new ways to produce home power.
Now the questions, do any readers know the design configuration of the small steam
powered generator that was used during the war in the islands to charge batteries etc
I think there is one in the Australian War Memorial in Canberra, when I get a chance I will contact them to see if I can get a look at it. From what I can understand it was powered be a small boiler and kerosene pressure stove, I have no idea of the output or much else as to the motor/engine that drove the generator, any help?.
Many years back we used to cut wood on a property about 30 miles out of town owned by a chap who would love to tell us about his army life during the war over a cup of tea when we were leaving to go home, he was a very inventive type of person who would not buy anything if he could make it or convert other machinery to do the job, his saw bench was powered by an old ford ute with the belt running off the back wheel, his power was I think 32v
and the generator was a single cylinder kero engine from the twenties?, being young at the time I was not much interested in his stories, but some of them are now coming back to haunt me, being wounded he was returned to Australia and ended up working in some factory making Alkaline Batteries in wooden boxes lined with tar or pitch or some such lining with lead plates and wooden separators and an alkaline solution that was a common item you could buy back then,he had about six or so in his shed next to the house and from memory ( not good ) they were about 24"x 12"x 12" voltage no idea, size is also just a guess from memory of fifty years ago, I went back to his old house a couple of months ago but it has been levelled ( he died many years back )and nothing much was left, so no clue as to what or how the batteries were made, the only reason that I have any recall at all was because the batteries were not acid filled and the old fellow was very proud of them and insisted we had a look at them every time we were at his house. If batteries could be made back then in wooden boxes why not know? I've searched the Internet but not much information on how to make them, the old PMG and the railways evidently used similar batteries made in the USA. Any help out there?.
Sorry about the long post..............Peter
PS. It was the late fifties when I was there and the batteries were war time stock, so the battery age would have been at least 12 or so years old and still working.
Edited by olddog 2010-08-22
dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574
Posted: 04:34am 21 Aug 2010
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Hi Peter
i know what are you taking about as l do remmber when l was small kid.so what are you saying about Alkaline Batteries in wooden boxes is more liking is Zinc-Carbon battieries in wooden box belive use the old days that old PMG use for telephone and had a friend given to me that l use for on model aircraft with grow plug to start the engine but many time l cut my finger with propellor however he also work for PMG pass away years ago has all information with him
Dwyer
MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329
Posted: 04:44pm 21 Aug 2010
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[Quote=olddog] . . . investigating new ways to produce home power.
I live in the USA and we have natural gas as a common utility. I don't know if it's the same in Australia, but if it is, you might check into whether or not the use rate changes during the night or wee hours of the morning; it does here. You may be able to run what is termed here a "co-generator" during those times when the price of the gas is less.
A co-generation unit is nothing more than an internal combustion engine that runs on natural gas, naturally aspirated. It might be worth looking into, that is, if you have natural gas available and it's not more expensive than electricity. That way, you could use an off-the-shelf lawnmower engine adapted to run on natural gas and not have to reinvent the wheel, so to speak; just go with it!
. . . . . . Mac
Nothing difficult is ever easy!
Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman,
"Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!"
Copeville, Texas
grub Senior Member Joined: 27/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 169
Posted: 09:11pm 21 Aug 2010
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You could try making a "gasifier"(the big drum looking thing seen on war time vehicles)and running a generator from it.
Hi Peter,
Here is a link at the AWM that might assist with your enquiries:
http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/REL31780
Cheers
RossW Guru Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495
Posted: 03:52am 22 Aug 2010
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My understanding is that "co-generation" is actually substantially more than that.
"Co-generation" (often called "CHP" for "combined heat and power") is a means of increasing the efficiency of the system by using not just the mechanical output (eg, to produce electricity via an alternator) but ALSO using the heat produced (for example, to provide heating or domestic hot water).
There is also "tri-generation" although thats substantially less common for now.
Cogen doesn't rely on any particular input fuel, there are plenty that run on natural gas, LPG, diesel, fuel-oil and undoubtedly other sources.
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 04:27am 22 Aug 2010
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Hi Ross
I know what you mean , as we did an experiment with a diesel pump motor many years ago as an exercise on waste heat recovery. It was a 100 hp motor with heat recovery that produced enough steam to drive a 2 cylinder compound steam engine also running as a pump with a 4" Harland flood pump with power capacity to spare.
Distillate was 9 cents a liter at the time so it wasn't a proposition but now I feel it would be worth the effort.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
RossW Guru Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495
Posted: 05:19am 22 Aug 2010
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As you know, I live 100% offgrid here. For the first few years, my primary power source was a home-made genset using a modified 4-cylinder car engine, heavily modified. It's still in use (runs a couple of hours a day at the moment, hopefully will hardly run at all in summer) - but the propane it burns was primarily for electricity (big timing belt to drive a 14KVA 1500RPM machine), but I also recover the heat from the exhaust, and from the engine block. That heat alone, was what we used (still use) for hot water for 3 bathrooms, the kitchen and laundry, and to heat the house via in-floor hydronics coils.
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 07:28am 22 Aug 2010
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Hi Ross
My friend had his generator in the basement 5 hp petter diesel it heated the floor above by included poly pipes tied to the reo bars before concreting, this was the cooling for the winter and a radiator for summer, the exhaust heated the hot water and central heating radiators, not unlike your system.
His engine ran on vegetable oil and waste oil with a bit of distillate thrown in for good measure. It ran there for 30 years with a couple of rebuilds. It ran a 5 kva alternator that powered all the house and charged the batteries.
I see that they are importing those old type engines from india now, made a copy of the lister twin flywheel upright motor.
His old motor was rated at 5 hp only but would run the alternator 5kva at full load no trouble, the horsepower was bigger in those days, he also had the induction coming from the septic tank to pick up a bit of methane and reduce the smell.
It ran for eight or ten hours a day on a half a gallon of fuel, it lived in an insulated box to maximize the temperature of water for heating the floor.
If I ever build again I would look seriously at the same system and a underground collector for air conditioning, dream dream.
All the best
Bob
Foolin Around
MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329
Posted: 12:43am 23 Aug 2010
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[Quote=Ross W]My understanding is that "co-generation" is actually substantially more than that.
I knew that, but I was trying to keep things simple and my main point was that "if" natural gas were available and "if" it were cheaper at say, 2 a.m. then the process might be a worthwhile endeavor.
So, does Oz have natural gas or do you all use propane?
. . . . . Mac
Nothing difficult is ever easy!
Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman,
"Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!"
Copeville, Texas
Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333
Posted: 03:10am 23 Aug 2010
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[quote]So, does Oz have natural gas or do you all use propane? [/quote]
He's in trouble if he farts propane Sometimes it just works
MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329
Posted: 06:56am 23 Aug 2010
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Pete
When I said, "Oz" I meant Australia, not John.
Am I remise? I thought everyone down under referred to Australia as "Oz". Wouldn't be the first time I've misinterpreted something, by the way! Remember winding "in hand"?
. . . . . MacNothing difficult is ever easy!
Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman,
"Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!"
Copeville, Texas
RossW Guru Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495
Posted: 10:48am 23 Aug 2010
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So, does Oz have natural gas or do you all use propane?
Australia has heaps and heaps of Natural Gas.
Unfortunately for me, I am 400 metres odd from the nearest supply point, and the cost of bringing it in is *stupendous*. Electricity was going to be close to $100,000 and gas is further away than electricity!
So *I* rely on propane. (I have a 2.75 ton tank, they bring a truck up from time to time and drop a thousand litres, perhaps two thousand, depending on the time between fills). Propane also runs the kitchen (stove/rangetop/oven), and the large industrial clothesdryer (yeah, a line out in the yard might sound more practical - but in this environment - it's not!).
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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however he also work for PMG pass away years ago has all information with him
