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isaiah Guru Joined: 25/12/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 303
Posted: 04:09am 04 Aug 2010
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'' I'll post mine as it appears on my statement
1238 KWH USED
MONTHLY SERVICE CHARGE* 12.00 ''
ENERGY KHW CHARGE 62.89
DISTRIBUTION CHARGE* 37.97 ''
POWER COST ADJUSTMENT* 28.49 .023010 ''
MICH PUBLIC ACT295 MANDATES 1.61 MY ELECTRIC COMPANY DOSE NOT QUALIFY TO CHARGE FOR THIS MANDATE BUT
THEY DO IT ANY WAYS!!
TAX 5.72
TOTAL 148.68 ''
* DENOTES FRAUDULENT CHARGES !
This company was a customer owned co op but was side handedly switched to a corporation without a vote of the owners.
This is why we are into wind and solar!! no grid tie for me!!''
This company is just a power broker they due not generate or produce anything they just buy and sell itURL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL>
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 05:09am 04 Aug 2010
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Hi Isaiah
We have the same parasites here in Australia but they don't suck quite so much blood with the extra charges, there is a $17 line maintainence fee, and 10% GST power cost per KWH is on a par with yours.
Our government sold the billing rights to various companies and now buys the power in and sells it on to consumers, same dog different fleas.
The only saving grace at the moment is we can sell back unused power at 50 cents a KWH.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262
Posted: 02:12am 05 Aug 2010
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!BLOODSUCKERS!
Jim
KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178
Posted: 12:17pm 07 Aug 2010
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You must be joking
your electricity price is 5c/KW/hr
ours is 4+times that....
Even at the "unbelivable bloodsucker rate" its still 0.12c/hw/hr and even factoring in exchange rate under 14c/kw/hr
mate we pay 21.9c /KW/hr over here.Luck favours the well prepared
Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333
Posted: 12:52pm 07 Aug 2010
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Karl......Check the location...They get 1/2 the volts we do.....Remember how Watts are calculated.......Do the math!
We are not so bad off after all i think you will find, If you factor in as volts go down, amps go up.
Pete.Sometimes it just works
RossW Guru Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495
Posted: 11:29pm 07 Aug 2010
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OMG! You *ARE* kidding, arn't you Pete?
Watts are watts, regardless of volts.
If they have 110V, 10A will make 1100 watts.
If we have 220V, 5A will make 1100 watts.
Either way, 1100 watts will heat the same amount of coffee to boiling. The cents per kilowatt hour is directly "like for like" comparison.
Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333
Posted: 12:17am 08 Aug 2010
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Hi Ross,
Yeah you are right, I had a Boags moment
Pete. Sometimes it just works
Redman Regular Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 41
Posted: 03:32pm 08 Aug 2010
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Just think, both countries are subsidizing coal fired power stations and grid. Basically we are paying tax to have cheaper fuel and cheaper energy.
If the subsidy did not exist, solar power . wind power would be "cheaper".
Than again, both countries have a broken political system. Edited by Redman 2010-08-10
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 06:43pm 08 Aug 2010
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Hi Redman
It is a shame that the powers that be use smoke and mirrors to conceal their connections to the commercial systems this way, what it does is encourage the public to be gross consumers, and then more power is needed to run all the wizz bang devices so it needs bigger power stations, and so on, at least we have exported out industry to China so there is less pollution from heavy industry, warehouses only need lights and a battery charger for the eco fork lift.
All the best
Bob Foolin Around
Redman Regular Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 41
Posted: 04:55am 09 Aug 2010
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What you don't believe in Clean Coal?
The thing that amazes me is the lack of commitment to long term planning (reg Australia). Always short term policy fixes, another election pork barrel and voter buyout using the voters money. (Middle class Virgina welfare? Comes with the Virgina tax! A Liberal / Labor voter buyout practice that Honest John created) Its why we don't have high speed rail and other things of national economic and social importance. Its too long term and they might not get to cut the ribbon. Most of the Liberal nation building projects are finishing now. Melb - Syd rail, Wodonga Bypass, Victorian rail gauge standardization. Labor have not added anything useful to this. Only promises of funding to "looking into it" projects by state governments and those sh*tty school halls in honer of Miss Gillard.
The Australian fires of late, Canberra, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide should have been a catalyst to improving the standards of housing construction to include efficiencies and bulk insulation, the governments neglected it.
A chance to re-engineer the basic house design to more fire proof methods that are cheaper and provide massive energy savings on the long term have been neglected.
The changes that were made are mere lip service, a means of adding to the complexity of building in rural areas. All the rebuilt homes in Kinglake and Marysville are of the same pine wooden framed "off the shelf" garbage that were built before the fires.
Metal and tile roofs, not green roofs that are fire safe.
Wood, brick and metal cladding that is just as flammable as the woodland they exist in. For brick the heat conducted will fry the frame behind it.
No minimum sprinkler, pump, pump housing and water storage regulation.
No double glazing, indeed its single glazing in PVC window frames.
No window protection, shutters and so on.
No regulation to enforce the hermetic seal of a building to a min pressure combined with passive heat exchangers to ventilate.
No pushing through of non flammable building materials like foam form reinforced cement (can be built in a week), Straw / hay bale with 60mm cement render (can be built in a week), Hebel brick (larger aerated cement blocks) that are fire proof and do not conduct heat like ceramic brick will, Hebel wall panels that are of similar qualities and many other methods of non flammable construction.
We are left with brick veneer timber framed homes built like any other.Again they have no energy saving efficiencies and no ability to withstand a 4 to 8 minute blast of 6000 watts per meter and a creeping 20 min blast of 2000 watts per meter as the fire approaches. What always gets them in the end is the 120kl/h winds sending a torrent, a river of red hot air and burning materials which can last for hours.
This might sound like it has nothing to do with energy saving but look at the materials and then consider the insulation they represent.
Brick veneer is possible the worst building material in any climate.
Timber cladding is actually better but not by much.
Green roof, massive bulk non flammable walls, large timber frame embedded if need be, hermetic sealed windows / doors and building with passive heat exchange and double glazing with heat reflective shutters would not only save the house in a fire it would save 2000kw of heating required per hour reducing the energy used for heating it would almost eliminate the need to run air conditioning.
No embers can enter, No flames can melt window fabrics and bedding, no radiant heat can penetrate and the air is sealed against toxic gases. The roof will not heat the underlying timbers and then explode as the syn gas from the timbers holding it up reaches its ideal mix and can be wet down to such a point you have 4 inches (50mm) of saturated material between you and the 6000kw/m^2 outside.
Governments don't think and when they regulate its all poppy cock and dribble.
A house built like that is no more costly in the long term than a timber framed sweat box but it only takes a 1000w light globe to heat it.
All this crap about brick veneer being "good and safe" is just that, crap!
BV costs $9m^2 (without the frame)
Foam form cement $24m^2 (requires no frame)
Foam form cement with 30% blown foam beads $26m^2 (requires no frame)
Hay Bale rendered $15m^2
Hebel brick / Wall panels $28m^2
Double brick no frame $18m^2
Straw bale is the most efficient and thermally the best insulator. It has low thermal bulk so its neither a heat sink or a conductor.
Hebel is next then cement walls with foam skins.
Adobe / mud brick is a heat sink
brick is an efficient heat sink
Metal cladding is a perfect heat conductor
timber cladding is passive.
At $1000 a year to heat your home versus the doubling of wall materials costs over 40 years? (without inflation)
40 x $1000
= $40,000 for brick veneer.
at 1/3 the cost using bulk materials
40 x $330
=$13,200
at 1/4 the cost using bulk materials and green roof
40 x $250
=$10,000
Now add double glazing and thermal shutters, hermatic seal and heat exchange, solar heating (under floor heating) and solar PV.
at 1/10 the cost using bulk materials and green roof, double glazing, hermetic seal, underfloor heating (solar) and heat exchanged fresh air.
40 x $100
=$4,000
Apply that to cooling and those numbers just go way out into space..
A house with a green roof would use one day in every 6 to cool 1/6 and only for 1 hour compared to 6 with other homes.
6 x 1.5kw = 9kw/h per day
v
1.5kw/h per day.
Does brick veneer still look good?
Now add basic grass roots geo thermal cooling to that house and the system will cool for the grand total of 70watts per hour.(for the pump if you use it and 0w/h for heat pipe.)
The green roof is a cooler and it uses a 70 to 100w pump depending on lift.
Edited by Redman 2010-08-10
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 06:21am 09 Aug 2010
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Hi Redman
Much to sensible for any politician or legislator to handle, much less promote, but the one thing that would make their crap buildings 70 percent safer is a dedicated roof sprinkler system and automatic downpipes closers to allow flooding of the guttering, and a minimum of 30 meters fire break around the house, wouldn't the greenie idiots go off at that, diesel fire pump and steel pipes as we discussed before with 50000 ltr tanks, heat shielded to prevent melting , that includes metal tanks too.
If they must have their brick veneer sh*t boxes a sprinkler system in the roof cavity to flood it as a last resort, as its easier to replace some gyprock than the whole house.
Its a good idea to have a sprinkler system around the house to soak down the garden and walls windows as well.
I battled with the Victorian fire authority and building regulators for years when I was down there, even designed and built a fire prevention system that would save a weatherboard tin roof house, and they wouldn't even come and look at it, but sent all the stupid politicians to a ceremony awarding me with a decentralized industry award, so I refused to come to the ceremony and that pissed them off big time.
As you say there is extra costs but compared to the cost of loosing everything it isn't much, the main problem is the people moving from the city to live in the bush without knowing or caring about survival. As my Dad used to say Idiots are self eliminating.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
RossW Guru Joined: 25/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 495
Posted: 06:59am 09 Aug 2010
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Sounds like this place.
I'm built *into* a hill. All except one wall is at least 1 metre UNDER GROUND. The place is built out of concrete blocks (core-filled with concrete where they're load bearing), absolutely zero structural timber. Floor and roof are 200mm thick concrete slabs. "Frame" is 600mm steel universal beams. All walls are concrete block. The one outside wall is concrete block. Windows are aluminium frames with low-emmissivity laminated glass. There are no voids, no gutters or downpipes, no eaves. Sealing (almost airtight) double-skin aluminium shutters over the door/windows. Area for at least 20 metres in all directions is devoid of flamable material (plants are fire-resistant or fire-retarding). Yes, we have 105,000 litres of water stored with the house in a reinforced concrete tank, fire pumps on-site and inside (that don't rely on outside power to run).
The local NSW regulatory IDIOTS wanted us to move the whole lot 10 metres further away from the fence line (from 10m to 20m) because of "fire risk".
We fought long and hard before taking it up with the NSW fire commissioner who saw sense and over-ruled the local idiots. (That didn't win us any friends either)
We've looked long and hard and have not found anywhere within 150km that we would feel more comfortable to be in for the next "end of the world" bushfire season.
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 07:15am 09 Aug 2010
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Hi Ross
Even with all your good ideas you still had a fight with local idiots, it just shows how stupid they really are, and to think those idiots are in a place of power in the community is truly sad.
I am afraid that people in government departments are in a sheltered workshop for idiots and their total reliance is on stupid rules and regulations created by an idiot for idiots.
There truly needs to be a fire safety forum like this one to spread the word that for all the safety rules the support and enforce they are lacking in any common sense.
People who live danger areas should have the right to have their say and the only way to overule the idiots in government is to fight them as they don't understand anything else.
Another saying of my Dad was: The most uncommon thing in the world is common sense.
It truly is an oxymoron.
All the best
BobFoolin Around
Redman Regular Member Joined: 12/06/2010 Location: AustraliaPosts: 41
Posted: 01:20pm 09 Aug 2010
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Councils are failed politicians or local busy bodies who love sticking their noses where they don't belong. (Home owners association USA = nazi party via the temple of children and 1950's America. If you think our councils are bad, you should see theirs.)
As for Greenies, I think you will find most are imported from Inner city areas like the brick and bitumen lined Fitzroy "progressives".
In that sense it is not a principle of balance they seek but are simply following a mantra of "save the planet" as a preacher would convince his flock to follow other religious spiels, the trees will save us all?!.
In that sense they are not so much green but slightly loopy, a sandwich short of picnic.
Oh enough generalizing
And to the minority the laws shall go because there are a few votes in mollycoddling.
"To win at all costs", it's a politicians dream.
Edited by Redman 2010-08-10
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 01:58pm 09 Aug 2010
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It is a sad situation of idiots being led by idiots administered by idiots and ruled by idiots.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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' I'll post mine as it appears on my statement
'
