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Forum Index : Windmills : Bio-diesel Standby
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| Xcat Newbie  Joined: 13/07/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6 |
Hello all, new to this list but trawlled through most of the new board and the old board trying to get up to speed. Also corresponding with Michael at EcoInnovation. While this topic may seem to be off-topic for windmills please bear in mind the standby functionality. I am investigating the feasibility of direct coupling a F&P alternator to one of the small Chinese diesels now available and relatively cheap (not the aircooled, - the water-cooled ones). Max revs are 2600 but I want to keep the revs below 2000. I read in past posts that the max limit for the F&P rotor is about 1200 rpm but Michael says they are good for a max of 5000 rpm. Can someone clarify this fact for me? I am intending to substitute the existing engine flywheel with the F&P rotor but this may not be heavy enough. Would it be feasible to add weight to the periphery of the rotor without damaging its integrity? An alternative might be to use a brake drum with magnets installed. Has anyone looked at or had experience with this? I want to achieve an output of 100 amps at 14 volts at somewhere between 1500 and 2000 rpm. I am informed that for the 100 stator I will get about 0.7W/rpm for any re-connection strategy so I should get 1400 watts at 2000 rpm. What I don't have is the voltage constants (kv) for the various reconnection strategies (P, SP, Star and Delta). Are these available anywhere? Preferably I would like to use the 100P delta connection because it will maximise current and minimise I*R*R losses. Can anyone tell me whether it is feasible to achieve 14V at 1400 KVA at say 1800 - 2000RPM with 100P delta strategy? If not, what if I substitute neo magnets? Lastly, I want the F&P unit to double as a starter motor to eventually achieve fully automatic standby capability under microprocessor control. With the hall sensors already installed, a low duty cycle 6 quadrant BLDC controller using say a MC33033P would seem to be feasible. Has anyone looked at this? Most past posts seemed to look at the F&P as a motor aspect from the point of view of continuous operation. One thing I don't know about at this point is the torque constant (kT) of the F&P units in the desired connection strategy. Any clues? Is this endeavour completely hair-brained? Sorry for the long post; suffering from a thirst for knowledge. Xcat Brisbane QZ |
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| dwyer Guru  Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
Hi Xcat yes l know what you mean over the Chinese diesel that cost me $400 same rpm, watercool as l have is sadding waste of time trying to use F&P as reason is too much vibrator on the engine and is very noising as well first F&P plastic material will eventully fail in very short time let me tell you somthing since l brought chinese motor soon l got is running for the first time few mins later muffer fell out and next inlet mainfold fell off and fuel tank came lose, had problem with fuel inject and took the engine back to the dealer promse me replace other motor but didnt have spare one so they repair for me and several days later l came back to pick up the motor and trying to charge me $100 for repairing and l end up arguement and they return to me with out paying because l made complianing to Fair Trading mobs before some time later fuel line bust and l finally dismane the engine because of the knocking noise and had rebalnce the flywheel by motor engineer and l modify conrod, the tappers my self but the knocking is still there however l use old Dunlite 2000 watt 1500 rpm for backup and again l had put rubber mount on the frames because engine vibrator to great So please Dont use F&P on 5000 rpm and it not made for to go on the diesel motor is to dangerous and might cause alot of problem to yourself and other  l am very sorry about it and big mistake buying this rubbish chinese motor
Dwyer the bushman  |
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| Xcat Newbie Joined: 13/07/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6 |
Thanks for that information Dwyer. Does anyone else have or has heard of the same experience? Need to make sure that Dwyer didn't get a lemon. These engines are copies of the Yanmar models. I am referring to the R175. Xcat Brisbane QZ |
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makourain Senior Member  Joined: 19/04/2006 Location: Posts: 111 |
f&p isnt really any good beyond 1000rpm because of magnetic saturation. a belt will fix some of the vibration from the motor. you ever heard of a . button dwyer? |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5078 |
Hi XCat A diesel needs a big flywheel to run properly, so the F&P hub would not work as a replacement. As for using the F&P as a starter motor, it could be done, but it would be a big project. I think it would be a lot easier to modify a car starter motor to do the same job. A lot of the Chinese imports are rubbish, but sometimes they just need a rebuild before you put them in service. eg, there is a craze at the moment for those mini bikes, motor bikes that run on tiny 2 stroke motor. They race them locally. Funny to watch. The Chinese bikes can be bought for only a few hundred dolalrs, but dont last long. So what they do is as soon as they buy the bike new, they pull it down and replace a bunch of stuff, like bearings, seals, nuts and bolts, etc. They the bikes last. Maybe this is what needs to be done with these diesels, rebuilt before first use. Tell us more about the diesels, is there a site we can look at. Glenn PS. makourain, dont be rude, respect your elders. You ever heard of using capitals for the first letter in a sentence.  The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Xcat Newbie Joined: 13/07/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6 |
Tell us more about the diesels, is there a site we can look at. Hi Glen, The site is here . Their head office is at Hemmant in Brisbane. I had a look at them this morning. They are going to show us one in action next Thursday. I am looking at the R175 6HP. BTW I learned today that they already have a starter motor installed. You are right, they probably need a strip-down and rebuild with decent high tensile bolts and a good torque wrench. Xcat Brisbane QZ |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 574 |
HI Xcat That is correct is from same company in Brisbane and one at Springwood They don’t care what item you buy and pocket money will burn a hole through your pant and diesel engine have very poor quality plastic material on oil filler, cap fuel tap is paint silver look like metal (Keep out of sun light), poor in metallurgy that diesel engine is very noise can hear air sucking though air cleaner and exhaust muffler, knocking noising like piston hitting the cylinder head and ever l got complaining neighbour who live just 200 metre from my house after few night running with 2 kw dunlight gen . That motor had to run at 2000rpm instead 1500 rpm (Change pulley) why is product hell of black smoke and doesn’t have 6 hp rating only 4-to5 hp and fuel consumption is nearly 1 litre per hour which is not good for this size motor and they is no adjustment on fuel inject pump to regard the timing to relief the diesel knocking noise last things to let everyone know that l made four trip to Brisbane and back to Lockyer valley nearly 500km it was much cheaper to throw to scrap metal yard anyway if you are interesting photo l will post it Dwyer the bushman |
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